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Turkish presidential candidate quits race after release of alleged deepfake

theguardian.com

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Re: Turkish presidential candidate quits race after release of alleged deepfake

#81

Post by xyzzyz »

pacija wrote: post #72
egeozcan wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We are not talking about imperialist sources trying to colonize a nation. Capitalism has its shortcomings, which can surely be discussed, but it isn't an evil plan to reallocate the most resources from a zero-sum game to the "foreign capitalists".

Of course not. We are talking about possibility to have businesses who will mostly employ local workers and mostly use local resources, some will maybe even pay fair local taxes, but whose majority of profits will move out of the country. Thus, wealth extraction.

This is not extraction. If they pay wages, this is profit sharing. At best you can argue that they should share more with locals.

Re: Turkish presidential candidate quits race after release of alleged deepfake

#82

Post by ksherlock »

riffraff wrote: post #29
anonfunction wrote: post #9

This is not Kemal Kilicdaroglu who is the main challenger to Erdoğan, and in fact could help his chances. 1. https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/turkeys-erdogan-la...

notice the article claims the opposite > The polling organisation Metropoll predicted late last month that İnce voters would predominantly give their votes to Erdoğan’s AKP, the CHP, with some also going to the far-right Nationalist Movement party and the nationalist IYI (Good party) in the parliamentary race. polls are all over the place for this election, other than telling that it will be contested. https://twitte…

That may be poorly phrased way of saying, "people will vote for someone else". Erdogan (AKP) polls around 46%. K10u (CHP) polls around 50%. Ince was (2018) previously the CHP candidate in 2018.

I don't know anything about Turkey but unless Ogan's platform was "Erdogan isn't doing enough dictating", it's hard to picture his voters all going to AKP.

Re: Turkish presidential candidate quits race after release of alleged deepfake

#83

Post by pacija »

xyzzyz wrote: post #81
pacija wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course not. We are talking about possibility to have businesses who will mostly employ local workers and mostly use local resources, some will maybe even pay fair local taxes, but whose majority of profits will move out of the country. Thus, wealth extraction.

This is not extraction. If they pay wages, this is profit sharing . At best you can argue that they should share more with locals.

Nope. Profit is what remains after wages and any other expenses, and is shared between owners or shareholders.

Re: Turkish presidential candidate quits race after release of alleged deepfake

#84

Post by codyb »

TremendousJudge wrote: post #78
codyb wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US has a large number of fairly undemocratic institutions such as Congress (supremely gerrymandered in many states), the electoral college (frequently favors the person who lost the popular vote) and the Senate (which rewards the same number of reps to 39,000,000 people as it does to 500,000 people). These institutions offer routes for extremist positions to take power which they could then entrench with a more m…

These "undemocratic" institutions only exist precisely because the constitution is hard to change. The electoral college, the gerrymandering, the shape of the Senate, they are all things that the constitution already allows. The takeover of power has already happened, the US is trapped in a 2-party system that basically everybody hates, but it's so entrenched into the culture that it's unthinkable to change it.

The 2 party system’s okay. It’s not the worst when it’s working alright. Right now it’s not great lol.

But this system has survived 227 years or so for a reason.

At the end of the day the Senate was actually a bulwark against extremism in these last elections in many ways.

I’m not sure what you mean by takeover of power as if there’s some sort of cabal out there. There’s a lot of different vying interests out there and some have more power than they should, and this isn’t our shiningest moment in general, but I don’t necessarily agree that there’s been some sort of “takeover”.

Re: Turkish presidential candidate quits race after release of alleged deepfake

#85

Post by kergonath »

csunbird wrote: post #39
kergonath wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I miss those days here in the US were somekind of sexual impropriety would end someone's political career. Who cares, as long as sex is consensual? Seriously, what’s wrong with having sex? The fact that a political career can be ended because someone made a fake video is much more troubling. I’m not American, but I am glad we just shrug when we learn about a famous politician’s lover. People are not going to stop f…

In case of Turkish politicians, they are all claiming to be following the religion of Islam and it is forbidden to have non-marital sex in Islam religion. Such tapes can definitely end someones political career very swiftly in Türkiye. Unfortunately, someone claiming not to be following Islam religion is not going to be elected at all, but maybe this will change into the future, so that religion stops being criteria…

> In case of Turkish politicians, they are all claiming to be following the religion of Islam and it is forbidden to have non-marital sex in Islam religion.

So they have something in common with holier-than-thou republican hypocrites. And many others around the world, this attitude is not uniquely Turkish or American.

> Such tapes can definitely end someones political career very swiftly in Türkiye.

In some presumably-liberal western countries as well, unfortunately.

> Maybe one day...

I really hope so. For the sake of everyone living there.

Re: Turkish presidential candidate quits race after release of alleged deepfake

#86

Post by kergonath »

NeuroCoder wrote: post #36
kergonath wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I miss those days here in the US were somekind of sexual impropriety would end someone's political career. Who cares, as long as sex is consensual? Seriously, what’s wrong with having sex? The fact that a political career can be ended because someone made a fake video is much more troubling. I’m not American, but I am glad we just shrug when we learn about a famous politician’s lover. People are not going to stop f…

I see where you're coming from but we've had a lot of politicians over the last several years implicated in some pretty bad stuff. From sexual harassment to sex trafficking.

True. Harassment, rape, and non-consensual sex in general is terrible and should be punished. And we should certainly not elect criminals. Impunity is destroying trust in the state and the government. If you think the US have it bad, have a loony at the recent history in the uk. This is utterly appalling.

This is a bit different, though. Having an affair is not a crime and should not be. Not having an affair but having opponents making up fake documents is even worse.

Re: Turkish presidential candidate quits race after release of alleged deepfake

#87

Post by kergonath »

Lutger wrote: post #32
kergonath wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I miss those days here in the US were somekind of sexual impropriety would end someone's political career. Who cares, as long as sex is consensual? Seriously, what’s wrong with having sex? The fact that a political career can be ended because someone made a fake video is much more troubling. I’m not American, but I am glad we just shrug when we learn about a famous politician’s lover. People are not going to stop f…

I assumed this referring to the recent Trump case, so it is actually about sexual abuse.

In Trump’s case, it was way more than “impropriety”. I took it as referring to the Turkish politician’s case, where no rape, harassment, or assault is credibly alleged. Abuse is a different thing entirely, but affairs are not abuse per se.

Re: Turkish presidential candidate quits race after release of alleged deepfake

#88

Post by pastacacioepepe »

esafak wrote: post #74
pastacacioepepe wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Al Jazeera says the opposite, his voters are closer to Erdoğan.

No. He used to be in the CHP: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muharrem_%C4%B0nce

You're right I actually misunderstood the news piece from Al Jazeera.

Re: Turkish presidential candidate quits race after release of alleged deepfake

#89

Post by xyzzyz »

pacija wrote: post #83
xyzzyz wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not extraction. If they pay wages, this is profit sharing . At best you can argue that they should share more with locals.

Nope. Profit is what remains after wages and any other expenses, and is shared between owners or shareholders.

[flagged]

Re: Turkish presidential candidate quits race after release of alleged deepfake

#90

Post by arp242 »

jmclnx wrote: post #3

I miss those days here in the US were somekind of sexual impropriety would end someone's political career. Now it seems, at least for one US Political Party, sexual impropriety is a requirement to be considered for higher office.

I miss those days we could talk about Turkish politics without someone forcibly injecting completely unrelated US politics in to it for no apparent reason what-so-ever.
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