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MSFT is forcing Outlook and Teams to open links in Edge and IT admins are angry

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Re: MSFT is forcing Outlook and Teams to open links in Edge and IT admins are angry

#81

Post by nequo »

IceWreck wrote: post #34
3np wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not to give Microsoft an out here but really? The equivalent for this on iOS or Android would be allowing opening links in a different browser and web view engine. The equivalent Microsoft apps on mobile OSs aren't degraded - they aren't even allowed to exist in the first place. Microsoft is bringing the desktop experience in line with mobile here. Doesn't make it less terrible but contrasting Apple and Google as bet…

Microsoft apps exist on Android and they're not forced to open links in Chrome on Android. If the user chooses, they can open on Microsoft Edge on Android. The user can set their own browser preference - and Google doesn't force them. Apple doesn't allow other browser engines but it's on them. None of these bug tech corps are in the right here, but MS is being more anti-competitive than most.

Edge and Chrome use the same engine, don’t they?

So the correct iOS parallel is not Apple’s refusal to allow non-WebKit engines. But Apple’s hypothetical refusal to allow links to be opened in WebKit-flavored Firefox. Which, for the record, it does let you do.

Re: MSFT is forcing Outlook and Teams to open links in Edge and IT admins are angry

#82

Post by wongarsu »

Xeamek wrote: post #53
dustedcodes wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think people care more about their phones than wether they use Goole docs or Word to put together a report at work which nobody is really going to read and if they do they'll ask for a PDF print out anyway and not the document itself. Same for other products. If OneDrive or MS Teams was all of a sudden really annoying to use on iOS and Android, but Slack and Google Meet would work really reliably and smoothly then…

You massively underestimate how much business world (corporate especially) depends on MS Office and how deeply integrated it is into companies eco systems.

And how little they can care about user experience if something ticks all other boxes.

Re: MSFT is forcing Outlook and Teams to open links in Edge and IT admins are angry

#83

Post by ndsipa_pomu »

Hamuko wrote: post #29

Have I traveled between universes to a world where Microsoft hasn't faced an anti-trust judgement against them over Internet browsers? How does Microsoft think that they can get away with all of this shit?

> How does Microsoft think that they can get away with all of this shit?

People keep buying it, so they can get away with almost anything.

Re: MSFT is forcing Outlook and Teams to open links in Edge and IT admins are angry

#85

Post by criley2 »

dustedcodes wrote: post #6

I have no skin in the game, but even I am starting to think the obvious thing here: Apple and Google own the entire mobile OS market. They could literally destroy Microsoft if they started to hugely degrade the experience of Microsoft products on iOS and Android with dark patterns a la Microsoft. But they don't. So far they were competing by making their own products better. Microsoft needs to think hard how hostile…

> old corporate software house who only manages to keep users through dark patterns and anti-competitive behaviour because they have given up on making products which people enjoy to use?

I feel like you lost the plot here. Microsoft fiddling with browser settings is nothing compared to something like Apple forcing a walled garden App Store, to create a fully captured market they can brutally take advantage of. Even today, Apple has banned all browser competition on iOS, and only Safari is allowed to run. All competitors must just re-skin Safari to obey the monopolistic demands of Apple. Imagine if Microsoft banned all browsers except Edge! It would be an outrage! But we all accept that Apple does that and has for 10+ years.

Perhaps we are all so used to the daily monopolistic and anti-competitive behavior of Apple that we do not care any more.

But Microsoft, to me, barely has a drop of the anti-competitive evil of its competitors. Apple mints hundreds of billions by banning competitors, locking them out and charging 30% rent on their monopoly. Microsoft... just wants their re-skinned Google Browser to not die.

Re: MSFT is forcing Outlook and Teams to open links in Edge and IT admins are angry

#86

Post by AraceliHarker »

toyg wrote: post #37
dustedcodes wrote: post #6

I have no skin in the game, but even I am starting to think the obvious thing here: Apple and Google own the entire mobile OS market. They could literally destroy Microsoft if they started to hugely degrade the experience of Microsoft products on iOS and Android with dark patterns a la Microsoft. But they don't. So far they were competing by making their own products better. Microsoft needs to think hard how hostile…

Microsoft is actually the one reacting here. They were effectively forced to let the web be an open field by antitrust cases; Apple and Google took advantage of that to build two walled gardens, which ended up dwarfing MS's own empire. It was inevitable that, sooner or later, MS would have gone "If this behaviour is now allowed, why should we not do it too?" This is just the result of normalizing monopolistic practic…

Simply put, people don't love Edge as much as they love Chrome. The browser bundled with Windows 11 is naturally Edge, but users who use Chrome install Chrome of their own volition, so forcing them to open links in Edge is extremely annoying.

Re: MSFT is forcing Outlook and Teams to open links in Edge and IT admins are angry

#87

Post by Donckele »

Pulz wrote: post #57

I'm an IT Admin with 15+ sites across my country. I'm not angry about this change. Myself and most of the people I've networked with either have or are transitioning away from other browsers, towards Edge. As a browser, it's fine. It has good PDF viewing/editing features, performant and works well with organisational SSO.

Are you serious? The best /useful things for you are PDFs and SSO? Both of these features are not what makes a web browser super duper. PDF viewing is available in all major browsers. SSO works in all web browsers - unless you’re using Windows XP as your enterprise cloud server running java and oracle and your asp.net web app requires a microsoft browser running in internet explorer legacy mode.

Re: MSFT is forcing Outlook and Teams to open links in Edge and IT admins are angry

#88

Post by fredgrott »

dustedcodes wrote: post #6

I have no skin in the game, but even I am starting to think the obvious thing here: Apple and Google own the entire mobile OS market. They could literally destroy Microsoft if they started to hugely degrade the experience of Microsoft products on iOS and Android with dark patterns a la Microsoft. But they don't. So far they were competing by making their own products better. Microsoft needs to think hard how hostile…

Not entirely a correct narrative as both Edge, Safari and Chrome have had their own private link protocols embedded in their own browser products involving other dark patterns.

Re: MSFT is forcing Outlook and Teams to open links in Edge and IT admins are angry

#89

Post by petesergeant »

seydor wrote: post #12
dustedcodes wrote: post #6

I have no skin in the game, but even I am starting to think the obvious thing here: Apple and Google own the entire mobile OS market. They could literally destroy Microsoft if they started to hugely degrade the experience of Microsoft products on iOS and Android with dark patterns a la Microsoft. But they don't. So far they were competing by making their own products better. Microsoft needs to think hard how hostile…

They don't because they can't. People use ms programs for their daily work , phones are secondary. And how is ms degrading googls products? They don't even have a mandatory app store in windows. When comparing them all, ms has been the most open one

> They don't because they can't. People use ms programs for their daily work, phones are secondary.

I suspect many, many more people globally (and in the US) use a smartphone than use a desktop with MS products on it daily.

Re: MSFT is forcing Outlook and Teams to open links in Edge and IT admins are angry

#90

Post by jve »

This experience needs more clarification on how it works. So if I single click a link it won't open a browser but render content within Outlook App? Okay, what happens if I middle click? I should preferably get default browser.

As to having Edge WebView2 engine in Outlook and no other - well, that is understandable [1]. Albeit Internet Explorer and Edge Legacy are still used by addins [2]. Actually it was about time to ditch the old IE Trident engine from Outlook and Office apps. On Mac it uses Safari with WKWebView[2]

So is this outrage caused by just introducing a feature where links open within app and it happens to use whatever rendering engine is there for that purpose?

[1] https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/deployoffice/webview2-inst...

[2] https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/office/dev/add-ins/concept...

Edit: I re-read the announcment and it is actually something different than an engine - yeah, opens in Edge and presumably shows your email in Edge Sidebar. So nothing to do with outlook rendering engines.

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