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Shell admits 1.5C climate goal means immediate end to fossil fuel growth

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Re: Shell admits 1.5C climate goal means immediate end to fossil fuel growth

#81

Post by hinkley »

r3trohack3r wrote: post #18
slashdev wrote: post #3

I’m not sure what’s the point of focusing on 1.5C anymore. I think the writing on the wall is pretty clear that we’re going to double that at least. Barring any miracle in carbon sequestration technology anyway. I hope we get a miracle.

This is where I’m at too. At least as far as I understand it today (leaving this comment in the hope that folks can help me expand my understanding) Life on earth is not stable. We are in the final death throes of this planet. Roughly 75% of life on earth is behind us. Life has been here for 4Bn years and we have about 500m left[1] until our carbon cycles grind to a halt due to the earth moving outside of the habitab…

Before the sun goes red we need to understand and categorize the interactions of life on earth, preferably including extinct animals as much as possible, and using that knowledge, we need to attempt to recreate it elsewhere. 2000 years ago the earth was covered with tribes and nations that had an intuitive understanding of these things, built on analogy and language. Even dredging that level of understanding up would help us today. Investigating the observations contained in that folk wisdom is often how science works. We haven’t been doing the work because industrial Ag and transportation have their own solutions which sound more appealing (as is often the case, doing the wrong thing feels easier and more fun).

Re: Shell admits 1.5C climate goal means immediate end to fossil fuel growth

#82

Post by slashdev »

hannob wrote: post #45
slashdev wrote: post #3

I’m not sure what’s the point of focusing on 1.5C anymore. I think the writing on the wall is pretty clear that we’re going to double that at least. Barring any miracle in carbon sequestration technology anyway. I hope we get a miracle.

If we can't reach 1.5°C then we should try to reach 1.6°C. If we can't reach that then 1.7°C. Ultimately: It doesn't matter whether we can reach 1.5°C, because everything we try helps making things better. And any carbon sequestation technology will only help significantly after drastic emission cuts, not as a replacement for it.: https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-023-00953-x

How about we aim for an achievable goal instead. What’s the point of setting ourselves up for failure?

That’s part of effective goal setting. Anything else is fantasy and counterproductive.

Re: Shell admits 1.5C climate goal means immediate end to fossil fuel growth

#83

Post by tomrod »

CuteDinosaur wrote: post #46
misiti3780 wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We have a solution to this problem, it's build more nuclear plants and electrify everything with nuclear and renewables. Unfortunately, we are shutting these plants down instead of building more of them.

It is not the only solution though. There are several choices we can make, but only we choose not to. Simplifying everything to just nuclear power is nonsense.

Super simple and good starting place.

Re: Shell admits 1.5C climate goal means immediate end to fossil fuel growth

#84

Post by whimsicalism »

pfisch wrote: post #30
nxm wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m willing to do my part once private jets get banned

"Critics of coercive measures targeting private planes point out that a ban would only reduce carbon emissions by 0.2%, based on study of the direct cost of private jets alone." https://flybitlux.com/what-is-the-carbon-footprint-of-a-priv... Just admit you're not really intending to "do your part" at all. You just intend to whataboutism everyone else for the forseeable future.

0.2% of all emissions just for banning private jets?

That's... incredibly good. I doubt private jets are actually key to much economic value creation.

Re: Shell admits 1.5C climate goal means immediate end to fossil fuel growth

#85

Post by NikolaNovak »

intrasight wrote: post #74
slashdev wrote: post #3

I’m not sure what’s the point of focusing on 1.5C anymore. I think the writing on the wall is pretty clear that we’re going to double that at least. Barring any miracle in carbon sequestration technology anyway. I hope we get a miracle.

A recent piece in The Economist argued that China is doing more to combat global warming than is any other nation, and if America is going to do better then we'll have to become more like China. I agree on both points. And I think that will be the outcome eventually.

That's fascinating, especially considering the source - do you have a link by any chance?

Re: Shell admits 1.5C climate goal means immediate end to fossil fuel growth

#86

Post by MisterBastahrd »

candiddevmike wrote: post #8
slashdev wrote: post #3

I’m not sure what’s the point of focusing on 1.5C anymore. I think the writing on the wall is pretty clear that we’re going to double that at least. Barring any miracle in carbon sequestration technology anyway. I hope we get a miracle.

Our kids, who will shoulder far more of the effects of this than us, didn't get to choose this. This is their inheritance, generations of neglect for the environment and rampant profiteering culminating in a climate catastrophe.

I didn't get to choose it either. It's what happens when money is power. If you want to fix it going forward, you've got to divorce the two.

Re: Shell admits 1.5C climate goal means immediate end to fossil fuel growth

#87

Post by brtkdotse »

TechBro8615 wrote: post #66
ahelwer wrote: post #9

One eye-opening fact I recently learned is that fossil fuel infrastructure being built today is expected to have a three-decade lifespan, after completion of its construction. So every time you hear about a new pipeline, drilling project, or refinery being built you know that the people sitting in the rooms authorizing billions of dollars being allocated to the project all believe it will safely be operating and prod…

How many of those can be repurposed to refine or carry natural gas?

Natural gas is a fossil fuel.

Re: Shell admits 1.5C climate goal means immediate end to fossil fuel growth

#88

Post by ThorsBane »

ahelwer wrote: post #9

One eye-opening fact I recently learned is that fossil fuel infrastructure being built today is expected to have a three-decade lifespan, after completion of its construction. So every time you hear about a new pipeline, drilling project, or refinery being built you know that the people sitting in the rooms authorizing billions of dollars being allocated to the project all believe it will safely be operating and prod…

Net zero means that the over-all result is zero. There will still be fossil fuel operations ongoing after net zero is achieved, until the economics of it don't make sense anymore. For projects that were already in the works, this makes sense. Those are already financed on the order of decades and planned long in advance.

Re: Shell admits 1.5C climate goal means immediate end to fossil fuel growth

#89

Post by mdgrech23 »

maerF0x0 wrote: post #57
jdshupe wrote: post #12

Does anyone have recommendations for good reading on this subject? What this means for combustion engines as a whole? I am trying to imagine where the push for clean energy will lead. I am fully on team green but I think the switch happened too late. I feel like there is a future where you have a large percent of the population (at least in the US) where EVs are too expensive to afford the monthly payment/up front pa…

IMO What we're consistently failing to see is that necessity is the mother of invention. Mankind has summoned seemingly unfathomable ingenuity and effort in response to dire need. It seems it will be Gen Alpha/Beta who will have their "ww2 moment" but in response to existential threat from Environmental and second order societal collapse. Likely changes will include mass adoption of nuclear (potentially including Fus…

What happens when we can't find a solution. In a lot of ways we're lucky b/c every major problem that has come along we more or less have found a solution to. I suspect climate change may be a little different. Not sure if you saw the movie Up but the basic plot is an asteroid is going to crash into earth. They devise a mechanism to blow it up but it doesn't work and everyone dies. Not everyone is going to die from climate change but it's very possible we don't "solve" it and life as we know it is fundamentally altered.

Re: Shell admits 1.5C climate goal means immediate end to fossil fuel growth

#90

Post by PaulKeeble »

jdshupe wrote: post #12

Does anyone have recommendations for good reading on this subject? What this means for combustion engines as a whole? I am trying to imagine where the push for clean energy will lead. I am fully on team green but I think the switch happened too late. I feel like there is a future where you have a large percent of the population (at least in the US) where EVs are too expensive to afford the monthly payment/up front pa…

At the moment I don't buy the trade off for EVs. They take a lot of carbon to make since most of the chain of mining through construction is still consuming fossil fuels and buying energy from the grid is still quite carbon intensive.

You can save more money and be more helpful with solar on your roof especially in the warm areas of the US. At some point hopefully the carbon cost of the vehicles will come down and they will make more sense, they just don't save enough currently compared to a Solar array which typically pays back its carbon cost in about 90 days a vehicle is more like 5 years.

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