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Low and moderate alcohol consumption not associated with increased mortality

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Re: Low and moderate alcohol consumption not associated with increased mortality

#81

Post by mil22 »

dzader wrote: post #70
mil22 wrote: post #40

While they found low alcohol consumption did not reduce all-cause mortality relative to abstention, other studies have shown a shift with reduced cardiovascular mortality balanced out by increased cancer mortality. For me the primary reason to stop drinking was preservation of brain cells. Recent studies have shown a simple dose response relationship between neuronal death and alcohol consumption, with no minimum thr…

Hasn't it been proven recently that they do in fact grow back? Although a quick google seems to have a conflicting info.. so /shrug

I am not aware of any such studies but I would be curious if you have references. There are only a few isolated parts of the brain that show neurogenesis (the birth of new neurons) in adulthood - the hippocampus and the olfactory bulb are the primary two examples. Alcohol kills neurons across the entire brain, with volume reductions and microstructure damage in the white and grey matter, and the damage is not limited to any specific areas.

There is some functional recovery after abstention from alcohol consumption due to regrowth of synapses and neuroplasticity, much in the same way our brains can partially recover from a stroke even though the neurons in the part of the brain that was deprived of oxygen are permanently lost. However the recovery is not complete and some of the loss of brain volume is in fact permanent.

Re: Low and moderate alcohol consumption not associated with increased mortality

#82

Post by avodonosov »

535188B17C93743 wrote: post #52
avodonosov wrote: post #21

But low and moderate alcohol consumption is associated with high alcohol consumption (some people become alcoholics after they start drik in low amounts).

I'm in this comment and I don't like it.

In this comment?

Or you are in a state of high aclohol consumption?

Re: Low and moderate alcohol consumption not associated with increased mortality

#83

Post by shagymoe »

In the United States, one "standard" drink (or one alcoholic drink equivalent) contains roughly 14 grams of pure alcohol, which is found in:

12 ounces of regular beer, which is usually about 5% alcohol 5 ounces of wine, which is typically about 12% alcohol 1.5 ounces of distilled spirits, which is about 40% alcohol

Re: Low and moderate alcohol consumption not associated with increased mortality

#84

Post by tablarasa »

giraffe_lady wrote: post #68
LanceH wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then why do they have a word for "beer"? That statement is far from the mark. Nobody in the US drinks under 21 as well.

You can't be serious lol. We have a word for moon doesn't mean I eat the rocks. Islam is practiced in dozens of countries speaking hundreds of languages. Anyway I'm not asserting that no muslim has ever had alcohol or that there's no disagreement within islam about its use. But the idea that the majority of muslims are routinely violating one of the main proscriptions of their religion is an astounding claim you must…

Ha yeah this is all pointless speculation... I can't help but point out though that in my observations of religious people, it's not hard to believe that a majority or even a large majority might (temporarily, occasionally, whatever) eschew some of the central tenets of their "belief" system.

Kind of like how lots of citizens can (temporarily, occasionally, whatever) eschew some of the laws. I'd hardly consider Americans <21 a solid no-alcohol control group even if it were valid to compare adolescents to adults as control and treatment in any study.

Re: Low and moderate alcohol consumption not associated with increased mortality

#85

Post by wing-_-nuts »

MichaelRo wrote: post #80
wing-_-nuts wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've read a lot of studies on alcohol and health. Broadly, I've come to a few conclusions. * Alcohol raises your risk of cancer, and this effect is exponential. Your risk at a 6 pack a week is minimal. Your risk at a 12 pack a week is moderate. Your risk at a case a week is enough to start seriously increasing your risk of dying. * Alcohol lowers your risk of cardiovascular disease at low doses (6/12 pack), but this…

Does these studies mean "12 beers over the course of a week but like no more than one every 14 hours" or "Whatever, just don't start another 12 pack this week"? Coze I'm more of a "12 beers at once" guy. By "I'll have a beer" I mean a sixpack.

I think anything over 4 beers in a sitting is considered really bad for you (read, liver damage)

Re: Low and moderate alcohol consumption not associated with increased mortality

#86

Post by mil22 »

garyrob wrote: post #71
mil22 wrote: post #40

While they found low alcohol consumption did not reduce all-cause mortality relative to abstention, other studies have shown a shift with reduced cardiovascular mortality balanced out by increased cancer mortality. For me the primary reason to stop drinking was preservation of brain cells. Recent studies have shown a simple dose response relationship between neuronal death and alcohol consumption, with no minimum thr…

There is reason to think red wine, with its unique combination of resveratrol, phenolic acids, and flavonoids, might be an exception to that. For example, the conclusion of a meta-analysis of 12 studies on the subject says: "This study may show a protective effect of wine consumption against cognitive decline. However, it would be important for future research to differentiate the types of wine within consumption." T…

Yes, this is interesting research. If I was going to drink again, it would be limited to red wine and beer (which contains other beneficial compounds). Personally I just take pterostilbene, which is structurally similar to resveratrol and has similar health benefits but is much more bioavailable.

Cognitive decline and dementia are multifactorial, and with alcohol consumption there are trade-offs between neuronal death, potential improvements in vascular function, and other things known and as yet unknown.

Here's an interesting recent finding from a study of 20K BioBank participants: "Alcohol consumption above 7 units weekly associated with higher brain iron. Iron accumulation represents a potential mechanism for alcohol-related cognitive decline."

https://journals.plos.org/plosmedicine/article?id=10.1371/jo...

Re: Low and moderate alcohol consumption not associated with increased mortality

#87

Post by User23 »

bena wrote: post #67
User23 wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Given that yeast leavened bread is around 1.5% alcohol and food can naturally ferment in your gut, it’s nearly certain that there is in fact some safe amount of regular alcohol intake that’s well within the bounds of homeostasis and thus as safe as anything can be. But that’s not how people drink is it? People use alcohol to intentionally disrupt homeostasis. It’s certainly plausible that there is no safe regularly t…

All alcohol has carcinogenic properties. That's just a simple fact. Cancer is bad. Anything that increases our chances of cancer is bad. And considering alcohol has no beneficial qualities when consumed, it's technically all downside. So while bread may have some alcoholic content, it has other beneficial properties. As does the sun, even though it is a huge carcinogen. However, I do like to remind people, that while…

If the State of California is to be believed, basically everything I come in contact with in my daily life has carcinogenic properties. That's just a simple fact. Thus the actual target is to limit contact with carcinogens such that the body can maintain homeostasis. Cancer is a particularly unpleasant and potentially permanent failure of maintaining homeostasis, but that doesn't change the general principle.

Also there is a concept called hormesis, which tells us that in some situations being exposed to stressors, which is to say stimuli that temporarily disrupt homeostasis, actually improves the body's overall ability to maintain homeostasis.

None of that is to downplay the well known risks of alcohol abuse. It's an avoidable cause of death and disability.

Re: Low and moderate alcohol consumption not associated with increased mortality

#88

Post by mil22 »

AndrewKemendo wrote: post #36

An author of this paper was directly paid by an alcohol distributor outside of this study. From the Conflict of Interest Disclosures: Dr Stockwell reported receiving personal fees from Ontario Public Servants Employees Union (OPSEU) for expert witness testimony and personal fees from Alko outside the submitted work. Dr Sherk reported receiving grants from Canadian Centre on Substance Use and Addiction (CCSA) during t…

The title of this HN post is misleading and the conclusion of this study is actually bad for alcohol sales. They found low and moderate alcohol intake was not protective, confirming other similar studies, and at higher levels it increased the risk of death (no surprise). So the conflict of interest does not seem relevant. It's hard to see how getting paid to consult for a company in the business of selling alcohol is a conflict when you're publishing a paper confirming alcohol consumption isn't good for you.

"In this updated systematic review and meta-analysis, daily low or moderate alcohol intake was not significantly associated with all-cause mortality risk, while increased risk was evident at higher consumption levels, starting at lower levels for women than men."

Re: Low and moderate alcohol consumption not associated with increased mortality

#89

Post by nebulousthree »

mil22 wrote: post #77
KptMarchewa wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>They don’t grow back. >Since quitting in 2021, I have become noticeably sharper Those are conflicting statements literally next to another.

You seem to be misunderstanding the points made in my original comment. The statement "They don't grow back" refers to the fact that alcohol can kill neurons, and these neurons do not regenerate. The subsequent statement, "Since quitting in 2021, I have become noticeably sharper," does not conflict with the previous statement, as it implies that cognitive abilities can recover after alcohol cessation through mechanis…

They conflict if the increase in sharpness is interpreted as a follow-up to the claim that neurons don't grow back. How can there be an increase of function without an "increase" in neurons (they don't grow back)?

Re: Low and moderate alcohol consumption not associated with increased mortality

#90

Post by lunatuna »

ghostpepper wrote: post #56
kspacewalk2 wrote: post #4

Everyone on this topic seems to have their own studies to back polar opposite conclusions. Canada is going the opposite direction[0], taking the position that "no amount of alcohol is safe to consume". [0] https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/what-you-should-know-about-can...

FWIW this policy change has been widely criticized by Canadians for being based on a flawed analysis https://nationalpost.com/opinion/harry-rakowski-how-much-alc...

Haha - good old national post. They also said smoking is good for surviving Covid. I will seek my health info elsewhere.

https://nationalpost.com/opinion/colby-cosh-where-theres-smo...

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