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CheatGPT

blog.humphd.org

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81–90 of 544 posts

Re: CheatGPT

#81

Post by dcow »

corbulo wrote: post #79
dcow wrote: post #71

It seems ChatGPT should be treated the same way institutions treat plagiarism. It's fine to use LLMs for inspiration but the work you submit must be meaningfully your own. Of course it's not perfect, it never will be. But ultimately it's the student that suffers when they plagiarize. Professors ought have this conversation with students at the same times they're discussing the value of learning & education. I suspect…

It will be a hard sell since it or similar tech has already been long embraced commercially. A bit like forcing students to use an abacus while calculators are around. The student should still be responsible for what they submit and all of its errors of course. But what should really change is our methods of assessing students. The University model for undergrads has already been long broken in need of fixing. I don'…

> A bit like forcing students to use an abacus while calculators are around.

I said allow students to use ChatGPT. Just make it clear that pasting answers from it verbatim, just like doing so from SO, is called plagiarism and does not benefit the academic community or themselves. There will always be cheats. Agree about shifting evaluation methods.

Re: CheatGPT

#82

Post by SV_BubbleTime »

giancarlostoro wrote: post #30
ford wrote: post #21

Perhaps this is another of the early (?) nails in the coffin for traditional higher education. If it becomes harder to assess if someone learned something (with a grade), the results of that assessment (GPA) become less valuable. Software has traditionally been at the forefront of allowing people with non-traditional backgrounds (bootcamps, other degrees, self-taught) to work in the highest echelon of jobs, because o…

You could force tests to be done in testing centers. My college had these and they were strict about what you can bring, you get up to a whole week to show up on your own time, and you're only allowed a paper and pencil if anything at all, that they provide. Make the Final and Midterm tests worth roughly 60% of their grade, and it wont matter if they cheat on their homework. Edit: Alternatively, have students do pres…

I think the edit is more the case for the near future.

I think we’re about to see a shift from professors running the same curriculum year over year not really knowing students that come and go on a time conveyor belt, to something much closer to the imagination of the parents that are often paying for their kids college “experience”.

OR - I see the tools used to cheat also being used to detect cheating.

Hopefully both is the answer.

Re: CheatGPT

#83

Post by dcow »

beepbooptheory wrote: post #74

Just cracking myself up thinking about 20 years from now where at some startup the sole engineer (prompt engineer?) who has been trying for hours to figure out why their program doesn't work finally gives up and asks the model "what is the difference between 'let' and 'const'?" and getting a mostly verbatim stackoverflow answer back. A beautiful story to me.

What is the difference between `let` and `const`?

Re: CheatGPT

#84

Post by SV_BubbleTime »

modeless wrote: post #51
agrippanux wrote: post #37

What ChatGPT (and its cousins) expose is that the way humans have been taught in most schools - memorizing and regurgitating information - is now a commodity. What humans being to the table over ChatGPT is our ability to create new links between information, aka creativity. Teaching creativity, imo, will require a return to the methods like those of Sophocles and his contemporaries. I would rather this author be writ…

> What humans being to the table over ChatGPT is Statements like these are premature. ChatGPT is three months old! This is a rapidly advancing field. The capabilities of these models are very likely to be radically different five years from now. Any conclusions drawn now about what value is uniquely human and out of reach for AI may be proven wrong quickly.

Agreed!

Anyone not answering with “IDK, but maybe…” is just wasting bandwidth.

This Gen1 tech. Most of us are already shocked at how good it is, and it won’t get worse.

Re: CheatGPT

#85

Post by triyambakam »

agrippanux wrote: post #37

What ChatGPT (and its cousins) expose is that the way humans have been taught in most schools - memorizing and regurgitating information - is now a commodity. What humans being to the table over ChatGPT is our ability to create new links between information, aka creativity. Teaching creativity, imo, will require a return to the methods like those of Sophocles and his contemporaries. I would rather this author be writ…

He even used ChatGPT to evaluate the approach of one of his student's homework. I don't understand his ignorance.

Re: CheatGPT

#86

Post by dcow »

agrippanux wrote: post #37

What ChatGPT (and its cousins) expose is that the way humans have been taught in most schools - memorizing and regurgitating information - is now a commodity. What humans being to the table over ChatGPT is our ability to create new links between information, aka creativity. Teaching creativity, imo, will require a return to the methods like those of Sophocles and his contemporaries. I would rather this author be writ…

I agree though I didn't find the author to be bemoaning students. Rather they were writing a "state of the art" piece explaining how things are currently happening and leaving it open for people to follow with thoughts about how to make meaningful changes to assessment style and curriculum in the face of ChatGPT.

Re: CheatGPT

#87

Post by shinycode »

ramesh31 wrote: post #24

CS programs will have to adapt to this or die. The reality is that five years from now, we'll all just be talking to LLMs all day and compiling/checking the results. It's no different than the shift from assembler to higher languages in the 80s.

It’s a chicken and egg problem. Can ChatGPT come up with a framework to write code ? Today it can only read docs and already developed code to create new one. Could it create a new langage that perfectly fit the hardware it’s running on ? If so, there is no need anymore for any other software company. ChatGPT, write me an OS please, write me a photo and video editor. Write me a game about … It’s seems really far fetched because, could it really create new software with a different paradigm ? Something that hasn’t been done before ? Given how it processes words from its input, it seems not.

School teaches how to think. All the frameworks and some langages that are used by millions didn’t exist back then. But what if the point of rupture was 10 years ago, would we been stuck with old and non innovative tooling and designs ? We still need to learn people how to think and develop skills. The cheater from my era never acquired good development skills. Today the cheater are just as good as ChatGPT so what’s the point in hiring them ? If all you have to do is enter commands in a prompt, let the marketing people do it and have their real no-code revolution.

We always going to need problem solvers and people with deep insights on how things work. Maybe it’s the time to dig deeper into the knowledge and write only real meaningful code

Re: CheatGPT

#88

Post by rpearl »

hutzlibu wrote: post #38
thfuran wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point of school work isn't to complete schoolwork, it's to learn.

If the point of school work is to prepare for life - then you should mainly learn, how to get a job done. And if they want to teach special skills, like writing essays without computerhelp - then you can test that onsite.

The point of writing an essay is not to learn how to produce an essay. It's to learn analytical thinking, research, and argument skills.

Re: CheatGPT

#89

Post by goatlover »

rippercushions wrote: post #23
sublinear wrote: post #16

When I was a freshman in college the professor would live code various data structures and algorithms on the projector and ask the students to follow along. Each time he did this it was subtly unique. It was required that you continue to use this same base code for the assignments plus your edits to complete it. This made it obvious who didn't attend the lectures and who they copied from. Assignments were graded by y…

Good for you, but that's not how the vast majority of CS courses operate. Also, coding on paper with no access to devices is both terrible and has next to nothing to do with how CS grads will actually work.

It is a computer science degree, with an emphasis on the science part, and a note that CS is not the same as coding computers. It's the science of computing, not a tech bootcamp to get you quickly up to speed in the latest hot language and framework.

Re: CheatGPT

#90

Post by ttul »

The best counter to ChatGPT cheating that I’ve heard of is to get students to orally defend their assignments in class. No computer is going to come to your rescue when you have to explain why you wrote the code you wrote.

Encourage the use of ChatGPT and other tools. Put the emphasis on understanding what the code does and why. The tool may help to explain this to the student, but if so, that’s fantastic. No need to worry. Learning has occurred.

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