Earlier quoted context omitted.
>But it isn't true on average. From the statistics I've seen that's not true. The lowest 20% may have worse care than the lowest 20% in other developed countries, but the average American has access to the best health care in the world. Just look at American cancer survival rates--they are the highest in the world. >The average hospital in the US isn't as good (well-equipped, well-staffed) Now that's just plain wrong…
Well, I have to ask: what the hell statistics have you seen? A baby born in the USA is almost three times more likely to die at or immediately following birth than in Japan . [1] Your cancer stat is true for prostate and breast cancer, but Japan has the best rates for some other types of cancers [2], and importantly Japanese people actually develop much less cancer[2.1], one reason for which is much better preventati…
Stephen Hawking to turn 70, defying disease
81–90 of 94 posts
Re: Stephen Hawking to turn 70, defying disease
#82Re: Stephen Hawking to turn 70, defying disease
#83Earlier quoted context omitted.
North Koreans think their country is the best too. The US health system sucks. The US spends more public money on health, let alone private money, and still has a crappy system. The reality is, medicine is something that any idiot can manage. Get a doctor and some nurses, put them in a clean building, and give them a few million to buy machines and stocks. Even the government can do it, and the government does it at…
"Get a doctor and some nurses, put them in a clean building, and give them a few million to buy machines and stocks. Even the government can do it, and the government does it at a lower price, because they aren't looking to rip off desperate people." They may not be looking to "rip off desperate people", but they sure don't know how to efficiently spend money (example: every single government-run system in the histor…
The fact is, though, that I believe this is the case largely because of how doctors are allocated. Doctors are, of course, a limited resource - there's simply an insufficient number of people with the requisite intelligence, mindset and dedication necessary to do the job. In universal healthcare systems, doctors are allocated largely by need first, whereas in the US the system is biased substantially by ability to pay. Personally I find that dubiously moral, but I think perhaps it fits well with the US mindset - it's been my experience that the poor are judged quite harshly there, and not necessarily seen as deserving of good care.
(a quite sidenote here - I often see people essentially saying 'if they want healthcare they should be more successful'. I don't really understand this point of view, because since healthcare is largely a limited resource, as people earn more money the cost of healthcare will go up with their ability to pay. No matter how hard everyone tries, there will always be a bottom percentage who get poor care)
> Nobody likes monopolies, yet those same people are fine with the government running one. The same exact rules apply. A monopoly on health care means the government doesn't have to compete, innovate, or have any incentive to give us better care.
The same rules do not apply if you have a functioning government - in principle if a government produces poor results with respect to public services, you kick them out and vote in a replacement, something you can't do (without monopoly regulation) to a private company. This happened when the Tory government got junked in favour of Labour in the 90s. Labour, for all their (many) other faults, saved the NHS and helped turned it into the highly efficient system we have today. Is it perfect? No, but it's much better than most alternatives.
> They may not be looking to "rip off desperate people", but they sure don't know how to efficiently spend money (example: every single government-run system in the history of humanity)
I see this meme spread a lot, yet the UK's publicly-run system indisputably achieves better overall results for the amount of money put in than the US's private one.
Re: Stephen Hawking to turn 70, defying disease
#84Earlier quoted context omitted.
"Get a doctor and some nurses, put them in a clean building, and give them a few million to buy machines and stocks. Even the government can do it, and the government does it at a lower price, because they aren't looking to rip off desperate people." They may not be looking to "rip off desperate people", but they sure don't know how to efficiently spend money (example: every single government-run system in the histor…
My view of the main con of universal healthcare systems is that it's harder to get care for chronic conditions that are unpleasant/painful but not ultimately dangerous. I think it's hard to dispute that the US offers substantially better care for these issues if you have the money. The fact is, though, that I believe this is the case largely because of how doctors are allocated. Doctors are, of course, a limited reso…
You could also say that the UK cooks its data more, trying to look good.
But you can't dispute that the US spends a lot on healthcare, and it's hard to believe that they get much more value for money.
Of course, doctors in the US might work harder, as they have better incentives (working at a higher hourly pay). Or maybe they have less incentives to work hard, as they are already time poor and cash rich, and giving them more flexibility and a higher hourly pay will just make them cut back on hours. (Paradoxical results are often assumed to be impossible, given certain assumptions in economics, but those assumptions just don't work).
Re: Stephen Hawking to turn 70, defying disease
#85Re: Stephen Hawking to turn 70, defying disease
#86Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's quite regular that local media in Britain will report on a fundraising drive to send someone (often with a rare condition, sometimes not) to America for treatment because the NHS won't pay - here's an example just from today, where a family's trying to raise ~$100,000: http://www.moorlandsradio.co.uk/2012/01/help-katie/ It's not because our health service is poor - in fact, it's excellent for general healthcare…
In America, insurance companies call that an "experimental procedure" and they wouldn't cover it either. Meanwhile for every case you can find for someone traveling to America, there can be an identical case found for someone traveling to Europe. http://www.kulr8.com/news/local/Cerebral-Palsy-Fundraiser-10...
You've found 1, which hardly equates to "every".
Do you have any actual data? I'd be curious to see what the real difference is between "them" coming "here" vs. "us" going "there".
Re: Stephen Hawking to turn 70, defying disease
#87Earlier quoted context omitted.
North Koreans think their country is the best too. The US health system sucks. The US spends more public money on health, let alone private money, and still has a crappy system. The reality is, medicine is something that any idiot can manage. Get a doctor and some nurses, put them in a clean building, and give them a few million to buy machines and stocks. Even the government can do it, and the government does it at…
> North Koreans think their country is the best too. I often see many similarities between the USA and North Korea too.
Re: Stephen Hawking to turn 70, defying disease
#88Earlier quoted context omitted.
In America, insurance companies call that an "experimental procedure" and they wouldn't cover it either. Meanwhile for every case you can find for someone traveling to America, there can be an identical case found for someone traveling to Europe. http://www.kulr8.com/news/local/Cerebral-Palsy-Fundraiser-10...
> Meanwhile for every case you can find for someone traveling to America, there can be an identical case found for someone traveling to Europe. You've found 1, which hardly equates to "every". Do you have any actual data? I'd be curious to see what the real difference is between "them" coming "here" vs. "us" going "there".
My point in finding one was that sensational stories about fund raising for medical treatment make easy news filler. Linking to any of them is meaningless!
America has a medicore health care system. We excel in some experimental treatments, and have some great medical centers for those with money.
Meanwhile we rank equal to Cuba on life expectancy http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_life_expec...
Re: Stephen Hawking to turn 70, defying disease
#89Earlier quoted context omitted.
>But it isn't true on average. From the statistics I've seen that's not true. The lowest 20% may have worse care than the lowest 20% in other developed countries, but the average American has access to the best health care in the world. Just look at American cancer survival rates--they are the highest in the world. >The average hospital in the US isn't as good (well-equipped, well-staffed) Now that's just plain wrong…
Well, I have to ask: what the hell statistics have you seen? A baby born in the USA is almost three times more likely to die at or immediately following birth than in Japan . [1] Your cancer stat is true for prostate and breast cancer, but Japan has the best rates for some other types of cancers [2], and importantly Japanese people actually develop much less cancer[2.1], one reason for which is much better preventati…
> Japanese people actually develop much less cancer[2.1], one reason for which is much better preventative medical care (for average people); the average Japanese person sees a doctor three times more often than the average Americans, and have three times more MRI scans
Cancer doesn't work that way. Seeing the doctor 3 times per year is not going to keep you from developing cancer. They may catch it earlier
Also how many times they see doctors could be completely cultural.
I have a crappy high deductible health plan I bought because I'm self-employed (that costs about $100 per month), but I can see a GP 6 times per year for $10 a visit.
For the average American the number of times they go to the doctor has nothing to do with cost.
Re: Stephen Hawking to turn 70, defying disease
#90True, I think the Hawkman is awesome, but his longevity in the face of disease probably has a lot to do with him being a groundbreaking physicist whom society deems valuable enough to keep alive at great cost.