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Oracle started as a CIA project (2014)

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Re: Oracle started as a CIA project (2014)

#81

Post by trasz »

UIUC_06 wrote: post #77
trasz wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To the vast majority of the world, including large part of the West, USA is more hostile than China. So, who is “you”?

HN is a US-based service. By the way, how is China coping with the vast flood of immigrants trying to move there? Oh, that's right -- there aren't any.

Doesn’t matter where HN is, what matters is where the community lives. And large part lives outside US.

On immigration to China: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_to_China.

How’s judiciary in US? Still imprisoning millions of random people for being poor and using them as slave labour?

Re: Oracle started as a CIA project (2014)

#82

Post by UIUC_06 »

trasz wrote: post #81
UIUC_06 wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

HN is a US-based service. By the way, how is China coping with the vast flood of immigrants trying to move there? Oh, that's right -- there aren't any.

Doesn’t matter where HN is, what matters is where the community lives. And large part lives outside US. On immigration to China: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_to_China . How’s judiciary in US? Still imprisoning millions of random people for being poor and using them as slave labour?

Your reference is mainly about Chinese nationals returning. 300,000 refugees and 200,000 Africans. Out of over 1 billion.

As for "millions of random people for being poor" I think you'll find they were imprisoned for committing crimes, and imprisoned after a jury trial or a plea bargain.

As opposed to, I don't know, publishing a newspaper in Hong Kong. Or being Uyghur.

Re: Oracle started as a CIA project (2014)

#83

Post by BeMoreSpecific »

trasz wrote: post #76
UIUC_06 wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We tend to treat our rivals differently from ourselves. So no.

To the vast majority of the world, including large part of the West, USA is more hostile than China. So, who is “you”?

Could you please specify to which part of "the West" is US more hostile than China? Being in/from EU, I think mostly everyone - going by recent public polls - is very happy about our partnership with the US given recent events, and a lot of people are already talking about the Chinese threat too. People here hoped China would take a pro-Ukrainian stance (with the TV presenter dressed in UA colors one time, etc), but that didn't materialize and instead China seems to be cooperating with Russia and people here dislike that a lot.

I haven't seen any serious claims (except from the remains of the pro-Putin nutcases, and the amount of these went to like 1/10000 the state before the war) about US hostility for a very long time - most people here think that giving up Afghanistan was a huge mistake. Most of my friends who didn't like the US acting as world police have said they were mistaken.

Re: Oracle started as a CIA project (2014)

#84

Post by trasz »

UIUC_06 wrote: post #82
trasz wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doesn’t matter where HN is, what matters is where the community lives. And large part lives outside US. On immigration to China: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_to_China . How’s judiciary in US? Still imprisoning millions of random people for being poor and using them as slave labour?

Your reference is mainly about Chinese nationals returning. 300,000 refugees and 200,000 Africans. Out of over 1 billion. As for "millions of random people for being poor" I think you'll find they were imprisoned for committing crimes, and imprisoned after a jury trial or a plea bargain. As opposed to, I don't know, publishing a newspaper in Hong Kong. Or being Uyghur.

No, they are largely imprisoned for literally nothing, or because of irrelevant formalities: https://twitter.com/equalityalec/status/1562849803297366017. Or https://twitter.com/equalityalec/status/1556292658615750656. Or sometimes just executed: https://twitter.com/phil_lewis_/status/1562837493648871430.

It does show a bias that at this point should be obvious even to you: you are conditioned to believe US prison victims - I’m guessing including those forced into slavery - deserve it, and to believe those imprisoned for all kinds of felonies in China don’t.

Re: Oracle started as a CIA project (2014)

#85

Post by trasz »

BeMoreSpecific wrote: post #83
trasz wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To the vast majority of the world, including large part of the West, USA is more hostile than China. So, who is “you”?

Could you please specify to which part of "the West" is US more hostile than China? Being in/from EU, I think mostly everyone - going by recent public polls - is very happy about our partnership with the US given recent events, and a lot of people are already talking about the Chinese threat too. People here hoped China would take a pro-Ukrainian stance (with the TV presenter dressed in UA colors one time, etc), but…

Lots of people in EU, not to mention worlds two main technology hubs: China and India. Yes, US is the good guys this time, let’s hope it stays like this, but we can’t forget Middle East, same way we can’t forget Trump and resulting deterioration of human rights.

China did take anti-Russian stance. Their strategic investments were redirected to other countries. They are complying with embargoes, differently from Germany (https://twitter.com/kamilkazani/status/1563534129534500874 for a somewhat related story) and some other western countries. Of course you won’t find it mentioned in mainstream western media.

Invading Afghanistan was a mistake, but most of all it was a crime against humanity. And the worldview that got US into that - same as worldview of Putin, essentially the belief that their country has god-given right to invade others - is still there. There are more similarities, like protecting their war criminals from justice. Or ideologically-motivated oppression: https://twitter.com/erininthemorn/status/1563223736681381888.

Re: Oracle started as a CIA project (2014)

#86

Post by BeMoreSpecific »

trasz wrote: post #85
BeMoreSpecific wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could you please specify to which part of "the West" is US more hostile than China? Being in/from EU, I think mostly everyone - going by recent public polls - is very happy about our partnership with the US given recent events, and a lot of people are already talking about the Chinese threat too. People here hoped China would take a pro-Ukrainian stance (with the TV presenter dressed in UA colors one time, etc), but…

Lots of people in EU, not to mention worlds two main technology hubs: China and India. Yes, US is the good guys this time, let’s hope it stays like this, but we can’t forget Middle East, same way we can’t forget Trump and resulting deterioration of human rights. China did take anti-Russian stance. Their strategic investments were redirected to other countries. They are complying with embargoes, differently from Germa…

China or India are not "the West".

My local mainstream media is reporting about Germany correctly and in full, btw. But yeah, we like to shit on Germans, other nations might not be alike in that.

> but we can’t forget Middle East, same way we can’t forget Trump and resulting deterioration of human rights.

Agreed.

> same as worldview of Putin, essentially the belief that their country has god-given right to invade others

Crimes against humanity are happening in Afghanistan now in much greater number than when the US Army was there.

I think that coming to resolve problems such as were/are in Afghanistan is the correct thing to do (not saying the practice worked out perfectly and that there weren't problems). That's absolutely incomparable to Putin who's there to take children, gas/oil fields and access to Black Sea, not to help.

Re: Oracle started as a CIA project (2014)

#87

Post by trasz »

BeMoreSpecific wrote: post #86
trasz wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lots of people in EU, not to mention worlds two main technology hubs: China and India. Yes, US is the good guys this time, let’s hope it stays like this, but we can’t forget Middle East, same way we can’t forget Trump and resulting deterioration of human rights. China did take anti-Russian stance. Their strategic investments were redirected to other countries. They are complying with embargoes, differently from Germa…

China or India are not "the West". My local mainstream media is reporting about Germany correctly and in full, btw. But yeah, we like to shit on Germans, other nations might not be alike in that. > but we can’t forget Middle East, same way we can’t forget Trump and resulting deterioration of human rights. Agreed. > same as worldview of Putin, essentially the belief that their country has god-given right to invade oth…

You can really claim with a straight face that invading Afghanistan and killing two hundred thousand random people was to help?

Because, well, that’s exactly what Rashists say about invading Ukraine. Once again: same mentality.

Re: Oracle started as a CIA project (2014)

#88

Post by UIUC_06 »

trasz wrote: post #84
UIUC_06 wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your reference is mainly about Chinese nationals returning. 300,000 refugees and 200,000 Africans. Out of over 1 billion. As for "millions of random people for being poor" I think you'll find they were imprisoned for committing crimes, and imprisoned after a jury trial or a plea bargain. As opposed to, I don't know, publishing a newspaper in Hong Kong. Or being Uyghur.

No, they are largely imprisoned for literally nothing, or because of irrelevant formalities: https://twitter.com/equalityalec/status/1562849803297366017 . Or https://twitter.com/equalityalec/status/1556292658615750656 . Or sometimes just executed: https://twitter.com/phil_lewis_/status/1562837493648871430 . It does show a bias that at this point should be obvious even to you: you are conditioned to believe US prison…

What garbage. "Obvious even to you" should be that poor people commit more crimes against other people and against property, the very thing that police are looking for. That's why more of them are locked up.

Just for due diligence, I looked at your "references":

1) the first two are from the same person, and are unattributed. So I kind of doubt they're even true.

But let's pretend they are: "irrelevant formality" -- going to your probation appointment is pretty important. It's not "nothing." Probation is what they gave you instead of prison. I thought you were in favor of keeping people out of prison.

"Dirty urine" probably means they were using drugs. They were let out of prison on the promise that they'd stay off drugs. You think people should use drugs after pledging not to?

2) your third one: One extremely biased side of a case which I assume has other sides, from an extremely biased source. Try to do better.

as for the "felonious" people in China: what did the Uyghurs do to deserve it?

If you talk to almost any defense attorney (as I've done), they'll freely admit that the vast majority of their clients are guilty.

Re: Oracle started as a CIA project (2014)

#89

Post by UIUC_06 »

trasz wrote: post #87
BeMoreSpecific wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China or India are not "the West". My local mainstream media is reporting about Germany correctly and in full, btw. But yeah, we like to shit on Germans, other nations might not be alike in that. > but we can’t forget Middle East, same way we can’t forget Trump and resulting deterioration of human rights. Agreed. > same as worldview of Putin, essentially the belief that their country has god-given right to invade oth…

You can really claim with a straight face that invading Afghanistan and killing two hundred thousand random people was to help? Because, well, that’s exactly what Rashists say about invading Ukraine. Once again: same mentality.

#whataboutism

"invading Afghanistan and killing two hundred thousand random people"

there's that word "random" again. You disqualify yourself from any serious discussions when you keep using that. You're throwing around crazy numbers like someone on The View.

Re: Oracle started as a CIA project (2014)

#90

Post by BeMoreSpecific »

trasz wrote: post #87
BeMoreSpecific wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China or India are not "the West". My local mainstream media is reporting about Germany correctly and in full, btw. But yeah, we like to shit on Germans, other nations might not be alike in that. > but we can’t forget Middle East, same way we can’t forget Trump and resulting deterioration of human rights. Agreed. > same as worldview of Putin, essentially the belief that their country has god-given right to invade oth…

You can really claim with a straight face that invading Afghanistan and killing two hundred thousand random people was to help? Because, well, that’s exactly what Rashists say about invading Ukraine. Once again: same mentality.

What Russians/Putin said doesn't really matter to me, there are no (significant amount of) fascists in Ukraine and no persecution of Russians was happening. Meanwhile, Taliban is very much real and their crimes against humanity are real too.
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