A group of activists got leaf blowers banned in the nation’s capital (2019) • Hacker News Board

Re: A group of activists got leaf blowers banned in the nation’s capital (2019)

#81

Post by tifik » Thu, Aug 04, 2022, 2:00 PM UTC

kilotaras wrote: post #57

mhb wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> people and companies have to buy new leaf blowers and batteries It seems hopelessly anachronistic and impractical, but why can't rakes be an alternative? It would take more time, but the landscapers would be paid more if they're working hourly.

> landscapers would be paid more Landscapers with leafblowers would outcompete landscapers with rakes.

I think the point was that since they banned gas leaf blowers, they might as well have banned all leaf blowers, leaving nothing but hand tools. Of course someone could invent a hand-cranked blower or something... would be interesting to see exactly what loopholes in the legal wording people would find.

Re: A group of activists got leaf blowers banned in the nation’s capital (2019)

#82

Post by rob74 » Thu, Aug 04, 2022, 2:02 PM UTC

showerst wrote: post #78

rob74 wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would really wish other cities followed suit. And I propose to extend this to a ban on all devices with noisy and smelly two-stroke engines: chainsaws, lawn mowers, motor scooters etc. The scooters may not be a problem in Washington, but anyone who has ever been to an Italian or Spanish city can probably relate...

I agree with the sentiment but pragmatically I think we have to time bans to when replacements are really equivalent or better-- electric mowers in particular are still 4x the cost and get mixed reviews, and I don't think chainsaw usage is a huge civic problem here in DC, but I don't live next to any big parks. Maybe we could also go with making new ones illegal to sell, though we'd have to coordinate with MD and VA…

With scooters, of course you could argue that a two-stroke-engine scooter is still better than a car that emits more CO2 (and even more if it's stuck in traffic or searching for a parking spot in some European city center). But electric scooters are definitely competitive and noise-free - of course more expensive, but still affordable, at least for an average European income.

Re: A group of activists got leaf blowers banned in the nation’s capital (2019)

#83

Post by nihilist_t21 » Thu, Aug 04, 2022, 2:03 PM UTC

mhb wrote: post #43

showerst wrote: post #32

I live in DC, a few bits of info about why it makes sense here, and may not make sense in your home: 1. They didn't ban leaf blowers, the banned _gas_ leaf blowers. Electric ones are quieter, inexpensive, and work just as well nowadays. My building has an electric Milwaukee that was 200 bucks and lasts all afternoon on a battery or two. 2. This isn't about people wanting to manicure their lawns out in the burbs at 7a…

> people and companies have to buy new leaf blowers and batteries It seems hopelessly anachronistic and impractical, but why can't rakes be an alternative? It would take more time, but the landscapers would be paid more if they're working hourly.

My house has a lot of small rock landscaping for water drainage. You can't rake the leaves over that without taking all the rock with it.

Re: A group of activists got leaf blowers banned in the nation’s capital (2019)

#84

Post by roflyear » Thu, Aug 04, 2022, 2:09 PM UTC

starkd wrote: post #10

donatj wrote: post #4

Outlaw as the author calls them “groomed lawns”. They’re a waste of time, energy and resources that could all be going towards something productive.

Imagine the hubris it takes to think you have the right to choose what people can and "should" spend their time on. I'm guessing you have yet to grasp the concept of individual freedom.

People have been doing this forever. It is nothing new. Don't act like it is.

Re: A group of activists got leaf blowers banned in the nation’s capital (2019)

#85

Post by hgazx » Thu, Aug 04, 2022, 2:12 PM UTC

showerst wrote: post #32

I live in DC, a few bits of info about why it makes sense here, and may not make sense in your home: 1. They didn't ban leaf blowers, the banned _gas_ leaf blowers. Electric ones are quieter, inexpensive, and work just as well nowadays. My building has an electric Milwaukee that was 200 bucks and lasts all afternoon on a battery or two. 2. This isn't about people wanting to manicure their lawns out in the burbs at 7a…

No post body was provided.

Re: A group of activists got leaf blowers banned in the nation’s capital (2019)

#86

Post by tzs » Thu, Aug 04, 2022, 2:14 PM UTC

sojournerc wrote: post #52

luma wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of the major benefits of a two stroke engine is the simplicity of the design, which lowers cost, reduces size, and increases reliability. Your proposal is a net loss on all these factors. A far better solution is to replace these sorts of things with battery powered electric solutions.

Intuitively I think an injected engine would be more reliable. Gummed up carburator causes the pull-start blues for me frequently on my chainsaw when I haven't used it for a while. I do get a nice arm workout though.

It was the same with my lawn mower. It only gets used maybe 6-8 times a year. For some recent years here were how many days it had been idle before each use: (245, 22, 14, 15, 14, 33), (258, 24, 12, 13, 17, 11, 38, 71), (167, 21, 21, 20, 15, 61).

Two simple things fixed that:

1. I switched to gasoline that does not have ethanol added.

2. Once every 2 to 4 weeks in the off season I start it and run the engine for a minute.

The container I use to store gas holds about two years worth and the mower runs fine on the the two year old gas. I do add fuel stabilizer. The bottle of that claims it is good for 2 years but my previous bottle was 6 years old when I replaced it and the mower was fine on 2 year old fuel with 6 year old stabilizer.

If you live near any body of water big enough to attract boats you might try at marinas. CENEX also often sells it. Here's a site that can help you find it locally if you are in the US or Canada [1].

I do not do any winterizing procedure for the off season. I asked the repair place I took it too one year when it would not start before I started doing #1 and #2 if winterizing was necessary if you were running it occasionally, and they verified that you only need winterizing if it is going to not be used.

[1] https://www.pure-gas.org/

Re: A group of activists got leaf blowers banned in the nation’s capital (2019)

#87

Post by jtbayly » Thu, Aug 04, 2022, 2:17 PM UTC

mhb wrote: post #43

showerst wrote: post #32

I live in DC, a few bits of info about why it makes sense here, and may not make sense in your home: 1. They didn't ban leaf blowers, the banned _gas_ leaf blowers. Electric ones are quieter, inexpensive, and work just as well nowadays. My building has an electric Milwaukee that was 200 bucks and lasts all afternoon on a battery or two. 2. This isn't about people wanting to manicure their lawns out in the burbs at 7a…

> people and companies have to buy new leaf blowers and batteries It seems hopelessly anachronistic and impractical, but why can't rakes be an alternative? It would take more time, but the landscapers would be paid more if they're working hourly.

You can't rake grass clippings off the sidewalk.

But... I suppose you can sweep them with a broom.

Re: A group of activists got leaf blowers banned in the nation’s capital (2019)

#88

Post by wintermutestwin » Thu, Aug 04, 2022, 2:19 PM UTC

lapsis_beeftech wrote: post #46

_Wintermute wrote: post #5

Living in Europe, most people just leave fallen leaves alone. I've never seen someone use a leaf blower except for dust etc. Is it a uniquely American thing to obsess over tidying up leaves?

Frequent leaf blowing is very much an issue where i live in Sweden. Where can I move to escape the leaf blowing? I despise the energy waste and pollution, especially the noise. The leaf blowers never seem to be doing useful work anyway; all they do is to move small amounts of organic matter a couple meters.

>Where can I move to escape the leaf blowing?

1. Rural areas where each lot is >1 acre. You might get some weed whacking, but it is not as obnoxiously frequent as fastidious leaf blowers.

2. Move to the desert where there are no trees. Bonus = no mosquitoes.

Re: A group of activists got leaf blowers banned in the nation’s capital (2019)

#89

Post by snovv_crash » Thu, Aug 04, 2022, 2:30 PM UTC

bradfa wrote: post #48

luma wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of the major benefits of a two stroke engine is the simplicity of the design, which lowers cost, reduces size, and increases reliability. Your proposal is a net loss on all these factors. A far better solution is to replace these sorts of things with battery powered electric solutions.

2-strokes output more power. This isn't my proposal, this is a thing which exists in the world today, produced by various different engine manufacturers for sale to the public today in motorcycles. Miniaturizing it to work on a hand-held lawn care device is just an engineering task.

It needs a high pressure rail with fuel pump, electronic injection and ignition control. This adds considerably to the cost, which when you take it into the engineering optimization problem, starts pointing to electric plus batteries for these small sizes. You need about 100cc before it makes sense to start looking for fuel engines, or some application that requires really high energy density for long endurance at light weight (eg. surveillance drones).

Re: A group of activists got leaf blowers banned in the nation’s capital (2019)

#90

Post by protonbob » Thu, Aug 04, 2022, 2:34 PM UTC

feet wrote: post #49

jamal-kumar wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I opened the door recently just to have a tiny rock fly from a weed whacker across the way come RIGHT into my eye, it hurt for over a day. Just hearing those rocks hit against my window is stressful enough but that was enough for me to fantasize about locking people up for using these things if I owned my own small country.

How about banning grass lawns instead? They're incredibly wasteful. We could be using land to grow food or do other useful things

I think a good benefit of lawns is that it prevents too many bugs from growing in the lawn. However, if you live somewhere where you have to water a lawn I would agree with this.