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A group of activists got leaf blowers banned in the nation’s capital (2019)

theatlantic.com

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Re: A group of activists got leaf blowers banned in the nation’s capital (2019)

#51

Post by computerliker69 »

donatj wrote: post #21
starkd wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Imagine the hubris it takes to think you have the right to choose what people can and "should" spend their time on. I'm guessing you have yet to grasp the concept of individual freedom.

Quite the contrary my dude. What I’m against here is the mandate that you keep yards looking “nice” to “not lower property values”.

In your original comment, you seem to advocate for banning groomed lawns, which is different than lifting a mandate in grooming lawns. Perhaps the mandate for groomed lawns could be removed without banning them? I wonder how effective that would be, knowing how ingrained in many cultures a "well-kept" yard is.

Re: A group of activists got leaf blowers banned in the nation’s capital (2019)

#52

Post by sojournerc »

luma wrote: post #35
bradfa wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is now fuel injected 2-stroke engines which will pass the current Euro4 emissions rules for dirt bikes and motorcycles. There's no reason that a small 2-stroke can't have lower emissions today. It's clearly more expensive to make a fuel and oil injected 2-stroke engine than a simple pre-mix 2-stroke, but it's possible and then you get all the benefits (and even more!) of a traditional 2-stroke in terms of power…

One of the major benefits of a two stroke engine is the simplicity of the design, which lowers cost, reduces size, and increases reliability. Your proposal is a net loss on all these factors. A far better solution is to replace these sorts of things with battery powered electric solutions.

Intuitively I think an injected engine would be more reliable. Gummed up carburator causes the pull-start blues for me frequently on my chainsaw when I haven't used it for a while. I do get a nice arm workout though.

Re: A group of activists got leaf blowers banned in the nation’s capital (2019)

#53

Post by feet »

bradfa wrote: post #29
GRBLDeveloped wrote: post #15

That's interesting about the 2 stroke engine being the issue for pollution. "In 2014 a study published in Nature Communications found that VOC emissions (a variety of carbon gases that can produce smog and harm human beings) were on average 124 times higher from an idling two-stroke scooter than from a truck or a car" Though this quote does make me wonder, what about when each vehicle are in transit?

There is now fuel injected 2-stroke engines which will pass the current Euro4 emissions rules for dirt bikes and motorcycles. There's no reason that a small 2-stroke can't have lower emissions today. It's clearly more expensive to make a fuel and oil injected 2-stroke engine than a simple pre-mix 2-stroke, but it's possible and then you get all the benefits (and even more!) of a traditional 2-stroke in terms of power…

I'm willing to bet that computer controlled fuel injection wouldn't solve the issue. It may lower emissions slightly but two strokes still require lubricant to be mixed with the fuel, I'd bet my hat that's where the high VOC emission is really coming from. They're constantly burning oil, literally.

Re: A group of activists got leaf blowers banned in the nation’s capital (2019)

#54

Post by bradfa »

horsawlarway wrote: post #40
bradfa wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is now fuel injected 2-stroke engines which will pass the current Euro4 emissions rules for dirt bikes and motorcycles. There's no reason that a small 2-stroke can't have lower emissions today. It's clearly more expensive to make a fuel and oil injected 2-stroke engine than a simple pre-mix 2-stroke, but it's possible and then you get all the benefits (and even more!) of a traditional 2-stroke in terms of power…

Interesting - At least in my area most of the gas weed eaters available for sale are now 4-stroke. Wonder which will end up being more prevalent.

For a homeowner, a 2 or 4 stroke gas engine has no compelling benefit these days over a cordless electric string trimmer. The price of the electrics seems to be low enough now and carry enough energy to handle pretty much any single family home. But for a lawn care crew who may cut 20+ lawns a day, they will need a heck of a battery solution for string trimmers or leaf blowers, either in terms of battery capacity or in mobile recharging ability (which surely would end up being a gasoline or propane generator on the trailer with the lawn equipment).

Re: A group of activists got leaf blowers banned in the nation’s capital (2019)

#55

Post by feet »

CivBase wrote: post #42
fat_cantor wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everywhere in America that I have lived, their primary use case is landscapers blowing leaves and trash from private property into the street, thereby clogging drains.

As an American, I have only ever seen the opposite. Pretty much everyone where I'm at just mows over the leaves. Blowers mostly used to clear streets and sidewalks. Rakes are sometimes used to collect leaves and burn them, but even that is uncommon. However, I live in the midwest. We don't have as many trees here as the east or west coasts.

That's the smart way to go, decomposing leaves fertilize

Re: A group of activists got leaf blowers banned in the nation’s capital (2019)

#56

Post by feet »

tragictrash wrote: post #23
chrisseaton wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Part of it is because of lawns, if you have a lot of trees the leaves can simply smother your lawn. Do you think we don't have trees and lawns in Europe?

Do you think they think you don't have trees and lawns in Europe? Why are you acting like this is hard to understand?

Because the statement was framed as a purely american problem

Re: A group of activists got leaf blowers banned in the nation’s capital (2019)

#57

Post by kilotaras »

mhb wrote: post #43
showerst wrote: post #32

I live in DC, a few bits of info about why it makes sense here, and may not make sense in your home: 1. They didn't ban leaf blowers, the banned _gas_ leaf blowers. Electric ones are quieter, inexpensive, and work just as well nowadays. My building has an electric Milwaukee that was 200 bucks and lasts all afternoon on a battery or two. 2. This isn't about people wanting to manicure their lawns out in the burbs at 7a…

> people and companies have to buy new leaf blowers and batteries It seems hopelessly anachronistic and impractical, but why can't rakes be an alternative? It would take more time, but the landscapers would be paid more if they're working hourly.

> landscapers would be paid more

Landscapers with leafblowers would outcompete landscapers with rakes.

Re: A group of activists got leaf blowers banned in the nation’s capital (2019)

#58

Post by donatj »

computerliker69 wrote: post #51
donatj wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quite the contrary my dude. What I’m against here is the mandate that you keep yards looking “nice” to “not lower property values”.

In your original comment, you seem to advocate for banning groomed lawns, which is different than lifting a mandate in grooming lawns. Perhaps the mandate for groomed lawns could be removed without banning them? I wonder how effective that would be, knowing how ingrained in many cultures a "well-kept" yard is.

True. My words were uncareful and flippant response to outlawing one thing with the proposal to outlaw another.

My end goal and what were said are close but not directly in line. I don’t really care if a few crazies manicure their lawn, but it shouldn’t be a forced standard. Everyone doing it is terrible for the environment.

Re: A group of activists got leaf blowers banned in the nation’s capital (2019)

#59

Post by throwaway0a5e »

mhb wrote: post #43
showerst wrote: post #32

I live in DC, a few bits of info about why it makes sense here, and may not make sense in your home: 1. They didn't ban leaf blowers, the banned _gas_ leaf blowers. Electric ones are quieter, inexpensive, and work just as well nowadays. My building has an electric Milwaukee that was 200 bucks and lasts all afternoon on a battery or two. 2. This isn't about people wanting to manicure their lawns out in the burbs at 7a…

> people and companies have to buy new leaf blowers and batteries It seems hopelessly anachronistic and impractical, but why can't rakes be an alternative? It would take more time, but the landscapers would be paid more if they're working hourly.

a) Rakes

b) Double digit minimum wage

c) Being able to afford a landscaper.

Pick two.

I own a rake and use it my damn self, which shouldn't matter but probably does.

Re: A group of activists got leaf blowers banned in the nation’s capital (2019)

#60

Post by bradfa »

mhb wrote: post #43
showerst wrote: post #32

I live in DC, a few bits of info about why it makes sense here, and may not make sense in your home: 1. They didn't ban leaf blowers, the banned _gas_ leaf blowers. Electric ones are quieter, inexpensive, and work just as well nowadays. My building has an electric Milwaukee that was 200 bucks and lasts all afternoon on a battery or two. 2. This isn't about people wanting to manicure their lawns out in the burbs at 7a…

> people and companies have to buy new leaf blowers and batteries It seems hopelessly anachronistic and impractical, but why can't rakes be an alternative? It would take more time, but the landscapers would be paid more if they're working hourly.

Much of the leaf blower usage in my area is just to blow the grass clippings back onto the lawn when they end up in the street/driveway/parking lot/sidewalk/etc. If the mower just had a mulching system which trapped the cut grass under itself, then there'd be no need to blow the cut grass at all, it would already be on the lawn.

It's funny to me watching the lawn crews get out their blowers at the end of every mow to blow the grass clippings. It seems like such a waste of time, and hence money to pay them for that labor. Simply preventing the need for using a leaf blower seems like something someone should solve for these lawn crews.

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