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New Upcoming Telegram Premium Features

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Re: New Upcoming Telegram Premium Features

#81

Post by 2Gkashmiri »

heywoodlh wrote: post #78
Arathorn wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for giving it another go. Setting up Synapse itself should be super easy though - it’s just an https listener pointed at by an srv record or .well-known uri. We don’t need weird certificates or reverse proxy contortions these days (since Matrix left beta in 2019); it really should be a few minutes max to do it from git or pip, or a few seconds via apt or similar. Now, setting up a bunch of bridges is indeed ha…

Good perspective -- you are completely right, my perspective was totally off. Part of that reason is probably my only reason for using Matrix is for the bridging as I don't have friends or family who actually use Matrix, unfortunately, so I pretty much just use it for myself to bridge to other messengers. But again, I appreciate you putting that into perspective. Synapse by itself really isn't too bad. But for it to…

hey... glad you did that... i have been a matrix user for a few years but i have only heard about "bridges" but never really understood it. does a discord bridge mean i give my login/oath to matrix bridge from my discord and i can access those contacts in matrix without having 2 apps? that is my general assumption.

what about whatsapp for example? do i have to have an existing whatsapp account which constantly remains online and interacts on behalf of my matrix?

Re: New Upcoming Telegram Premium Features

#82

Post by emptysongglass »

cookiengineer wrote: post #13
giords wrote: post #4

> Changes in WhatsApp’s privacy policy had directed users to use Telegram. This is quite ironic. Telegram managed to sell itself as a more private Whatsapp while in reality it is WAY worse in this area. Amazing and sad.

For people looking for privacy: Briar is where it's at. A bit clunky UI (e.g. inviting someone isn't easy) but otherwise really well built client, and top notch network protocol and cryptographic features. [1] https://briarproject.org/

I want to like Briar and Cwtch but neither of them have iOS clients which really breaks the whole friendly to people who use other platforms covenant. If a client doesn't have apps for both of the big mobile platforms I'd say it's very unfriendly because you by omission are creating exclusionary silos.

There's Session, which is iOS and Android friendly and doesn't burn down your battery as messages are privately routed through zero-knowledge nodes: https://getsession.org

Re: New Upcoming Telegram Premium Features

#83

Post by emptysongglass »

brnt wrote: post #80
d0mine wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is false. Click the link to the FAQ. The paragraph for the quote begins with "To protect the data that is not covered by end-to-end encryption"

Then it is not correct. A security analysis of Telegram has raised doubts about their e2e before. They have (had?) a blogpost up where they pontificate about how it not necessary and would put a burden on their channel feature anyway.

The security analyses I am aware of target MTProto 1 which is not MTProto 2 used for quite a number of years now. MTProto 2 uses standard security primitives.

You cannot say "it is not correct" without proof. We know all messages not just E2EE are wrapped in encryption on their way out a Telegram client and we know they are decrypted on their way in because client source code is available.

Why don't you have a look for yourself then let us know if you've confirmed your suppositions?

Re: New Upcoming Telegram Premium Features

#84

Post by heywoodlh »

2Gkashmiri wrote: post #81
heywoodlh wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good perspective -- you are completely right, my perspective was totally off. Part of that reason is probably my only reason for using Matrix is for the bridging as I don't have friends or family who actually use Matrix, unfortunately, so I pretty much just use it for myself to bridge to other messengers. But again, I appreciate you putting that into perspective. Synapse by itself really isn't too bad. But for it to…

hey... glad you did that... i have been a matrix user for a few years but i have only heard about "bridges" but never really understood it. does a discord bridge mean i give my login/oath to matrix bridge from my discord and i can access those contacts in matrix without having 2 apps? that is my general assumption. what about whatsapp for example? do i have to have an existing whatsapp account which constantly remain…

Bridges allow you to use other external accounts through your Matrix Homeserver. So with the Discord Puppet Bridge[1] I am using I can log into my Discord account from Matrix and handle all my Discord DMs and group chats using a Matrix client. So yes, bridges allow you to use Matrix for all your other chat applications.

The general workflow is after you install bridges that you configure your bridge to your existing account on the other platform. So for Signal, you open a chat with the Signal Bridge bot and issue a command to link to your account and then it walks through that process. Once the bridge is configured with your external account any new DMs and group chats from those external accounts will show up as DMs in Matrix.

Hopefully that makes sense! :)

[1] https://gitlab.com/mx-puppet/discord/mx-puppet-discord

Re: New Upcoming Telegram Premium Features

#85

Post by brnt »

emptysongglass wrote: post #83
brnt wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then it is not correct. A security analysis of Telegram has raised doubts about their e2e before. They have (had?) a blogpost up where they pontificate about how it not necessary and would put a burden on their channel feature anyway.

The security analyses I am aware of target MTProto 1 which is not MTProto 2 used for quite a number of years now. MTProto 2 uses standard security primitives. You cannot say "it is not correct" without proof. We know all messages not just E2EE are wrapped in encryption on their way out a Telegram client and we know they are decrypted on their way in because client source code is available. Why don't you have a look f…

No post body was provided.

Re: New Upcoming Telegram Premium Features

#86

Post by emptysongglass »

brnt wrote: post #85
emptysongglass wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The security analyses I am aware of target MTProto 1 which is not MTProto 2 used for quite a number of years now. MTProto 2 uses standard security primitives. You cannot say "it is not correct" without proof. We know all messages not just E2EE are wrapped in encryption on their way out a Telegram client and we know they are decrypted on their way in because client source code is available. Why don't you have a look f…

Quoted post unavailable.

> There simply isn't any encryption besides SSL for all the rest, which at one point they were boasting is the cause for their generally excellent performance (no distribution of keys etc). They didn't change that unless they ware uncharacteristically quiet about such a major new feature. It would run counter to their motivation for not doing it in that earlier blogpost. It also doesn't make sense to then have MTproto in parallel especially since they apparently solved key exchange and so on.

At this point you are just willfully throwing around misinformation. A number of commenters have tried to point you directly to the docs to which you've just said, "it's wrong".

> talking about MTproto, which is only used for their e2e chats.

This is also misinformation. [1] Please stop.

I only flag as an absolute last resort here on HN but you are actively harming discourse at this point.

[1] https://core.telegram.org/mtproto/AJiEAwIYFoAsBGJBjZwYoQIwFM...

Re: New Upcoming Telegram Premium Features

#87

Post by RcrdBrt »

heywoodlh wrote: post #45
2Gkashmiri wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

signal and telegram are a no brainer when it comes to totalitarian regimes. i live in Kashmir which has historically and continues to hunt down dissidents with agility. i cannot imagine being tied to my "mobile number" when the government has that data by law, tying a telegram/signal account to it is a gone case by that point. people who go with signal call it "better whatsapp without facebook tracking" but just like…

> you can set up your own matrix server Synapse is still one of the worst installation processes[1] I've gone through. I'm extremely comfortable with Ansible and Docker but their install process sucks if you aren't exposing your Matrix instance to the world and don't have a domain pointing at it. On top of that, there are so many moving pieces to it if you want to bridge it to other services. I got it all installed b…

There is Dendrite, a complete rewrite of Synapse in Golang by the same authors

https://github.com/matrix-org/dendrite

Re: New Upcoming Telegram Premium Features

#88

Post by ephbit »

pph wrote: post #74
ephbit wrote: post #27

Only just the word "Premium" in the title confirms my (totally unfounded because I didn't read much about nor try it) scepticism towards Telegram. I have an automatic aversion against the principle of two class services where the provider can over time tighten the screws and urge more people towards their premium offer. I'd prefer a service that just has one package an everyone pays the same. It's more transparent an…

The issue I see with that is that messengers (platforms) have a strong network effect - it becomes useful to you if you can reach your contacts there. Making it paid creates an inconvenience even if the price extremely low, if you don't even know if your friends are on there (= if it's useful to you) even more so. If your target group is worldwide you need regional pricing (and payment methods) to not exclude economi…

> Making it paid creates an inconvenience even if the price extremely low, ...

Buying ... isn't it always "inconvenient"?

Shopping for groceries, what an inconvenience.

I get your point: not having to do something to get something is always easier. But when you're literally paying for soooo many other things every day .. where's the proportionality? When in this case of instant messaging app you'd have to buy it once.

> If your target group is worldwide you need regional pricing (and payment methods) to not exclude economically disadvantaged regions.

Yes, valid. Like with most other services/products all over the world, of course the messaging app as well would be priced according to the usual standards in the respective country. Food prices and all other prices vary from region to region, country to country.

So I didn't mean it should be priced the same in every country. Just that there better not be two different service levels. As I wrote, IMO this differentiation just enables gamification/maximisation of revenue.

> For a case study of a paid messenger see Threema, ...

Yes, Threema appears to move rather slowly. Of course they are, when all other apps offer even more shiny features and are free. That's just how most people decide: nice features, friends are there, free .. yep, I'll go with that.

My impression is that Threema is doing ok, considering the fact that it costs a few bucks.

Re: New Upcoming Telegram Premium Features

#89

Post by anunay03 »

fer wrote: post #36
giords wrote: post #4

> Changes in WhatsApp’s privacy policy had directed users to use Telegram. This is quite ironic. Telegram managed to sell itself as a more private Whatsapp while in reality it is WAY worse in this area. Amazing and sad.

It's not worse, aside from chats being unencrypted by default. I've had suggestions on Instagram of people who I never got in touch with, only because my wife, who has no FB account, is in the same WhatsApp group as these people. They mixed in a bunch of other "you may know" people to make it less obvious, but when comparing her groupchat and my suggestions, it's clear they made links via IPs and phone numbers. At le…

To me a chat app not reading my messages is way more important than a chat app will not use my phone number for advertisement. Ideally I'd have both, but given a choice, the first one is way way more horrific than the other.

Though, for some cases Telegram is definately better, Groups, work related chats don't really need to be private as much and that's where telegram really shines for me. Specially since I can use it without giving my phone number away.

Re: New Upcoming Telegram Premium Features

#90

Post by anunay03 »

algerd wrote: post #58
vezycash wrote: post #41

I simply want to appear offline permanently. And my 'last seen' to be whatever I set it to. Gimme these two and I'll pay $1 per year.

You can already do it via Settings -> Security -> Last Activity

I think it still shows a rough last seen (Recently, within a week, within a month) even with that off. Good enough for me.
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