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Indian lawmaker arrested after tweet criticising Narendra Modi

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Re: Indian lawmaker arrested after tweet criticising Narendra Modi

#81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, again, context matters. A lot of Delhi, and probably a lot more of Mumbai is just illegal construction, if you were to apply the law squarely, a large part of the cities would be rubble. You're (perhaps rather knowingly) ignoring the nuance here.

Agreed but this is not unique to the current federal government at all. Whoever is in power at the state or national level has used this power for their benefit. Case in point, office of a prominent Indian actor was broken by a state government which is the political rival of the government at national level, even after a high court order preventing them from doing so.

I seriously don't want to engage with whataboutry, but I'm going to reply to you with the tiniest hope that you might be willing to listen to reason.

So first, i agree with you that power structures have always taken advantage of their position to shutdown their opposition.

The reason that this has become significant enough in India for someone to take note and take action, is because of the blatant and frequent application of authority in this manner and that too targeted towards a specific community. The scale is enormous and is not showing any signs of decreasing.

Re: Indian lawmaker arrested after tweet criticising Narendra Modi

#82
post #78

A lot of people will surely have strong opinions on topics like this. And if true, then those strong opinions and voices are needed. But I don't think Hacker News is the right place for this since there is not even a single bit of tech relevance in this story.

Another commenter already said this below, and someone else already replied with this guideline:

> On-Topic: Anything that good hackers would find interesting. That includes more than hacking and startups. If you had to reduce it to a sentence, the answer might be: anything that gratifies one's intellectual curiosity.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Freedom of speech is an extremely interesting topic to a very large part of the community here, and as such this article absolutely has a place.

Re: Indian lawmaker arrested after tweet criticising Narendra Modi

#83

I admit I'm not super familiar with India's freedom of speech, is this a backslide or has it always been like this?

India never had freedom of speech. Opposition newspapers are often harassed and shut down. They have a law criminalizing offending religious feelings. This is not an exaggerated paraphrase, that’s what the law says. A scientist was convicted under this law a few years ago for demonstrating that a “weeping” statue of the Virgin Mary was not actually weeping blood. The truth was offensive, so the law applied. EDIT: I r…

> They have a law criminalizing offending religious feelings.

Happens in the first world too! 2018: "In Europe, Speech Is an Alienable Right: [the European Court of Human Rights] upheld an Austrian woman’s conviction for disparaging the Prophet Muhammad."

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2018/10/its-not-fr...

Re: Indian lawmaker arrested after tweet criticising Narendra Modi

#84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you have not noticed there was rioting in Sweden, attacks on Easter parade in Spain, and multiple counts of riots and attacks on Hindu processions in India. Perhaps it is a correlation between hunger and anger, or perhaps the more regular congregation is convenient opportunity for riots.

So riots in Sweden and Spain makes Sharia halfway in UK?! More Hindus kill Hindus in India. Relative to people belonging to other religions, More Hindus attack other Hindus in India. Where is your outrage against those Hindus here? And stick to the topic at hand rather than inflammatory tangential remarks. This is not the place for that

We are talking about freedom of speech in the UK, and in general.

There is nothing inflammatory in his speech yet it gets reported s i$l##*bia

Re: Indian lawmaker arrested after tweet criticising Narendra Modi

#85
Paraphrasing a bit: [1]

> He was charged with Section 120B (criminal conspiracy), section 153(A) (promoting enmity between two communities), 295(A) (injuring or defiling place of worship with intent to insult the religion of any class), 504 (intentional insult with intent to provoke breach of peace), and 506 (criminal intimidation). In addition to that, the police included one more charge under Section 66 of the IT Act. The most appropriate subsection in this would be Section 66A, which was struck down seven years ago by the Supreme Court as unconstitutional!

India has really vaguely worded laws that can be interpreted against any action or speech by someone. Offending sentiments, disturbing peace, inciting violence, promoting enmity or hatred, "sedition" (which is a favorite nowadays: criticize the country or a politician or praise another country's cricket team and you may be charged with sedition). There are even worse draconian laws (UAPA, Goonda Act) that allow the police to detain and imprison a person without producing them in court for a year or longer. Just claim that the person is a criminal or terrorist and they can be confined and isolated.

All these laws and charges are applied selectively. Those in power have abused and do abuse these to suppress dissent. When the people in the ruling party commit far worse offenses, they're not held to account (please search for public hate speeches where some people have talked about killing other people). When faced with protests about an inconsistent and controversial law, the Prime Minister himself said in a speech that "Those creating violence can be identified by their clothes itself" (a reference to Muslims). [2] Obviously, no action was taken against him.

What's even sadder is that the Indian Supreme Court seems to have long abdicated its responsibilities to citizens, and appears to mostly favor the governments if it does hear any important cases (it seems to wake up once in a while from its hypnotized state). It's painful to say that if there were ever a sellout that most people haven't questioned, it should be on this court.

Obviously, many other countries may be in similar or worse situations. But the bar cannot, and should not, be so low in India for people to feel proud in comparison. As the largest democracy in the current times, India should be setting a much higher bar for freedoms and be a pioneer that other countries seek to emulate. That likely won't come soon, and needs generational changes.

Edit: If everyone points fingers at other countries whenever such incidents are reported in any country, we'd all soon be living in places that nobody would choose to live in.

[1]: https://www.medianama.com/2022/04/223-jignesh-mevani-arreste...

[2]: https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/politics-and-natio...

Re: Indian lawmaker arrested after tweet criticising Narendra Modi

#86
post #12
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If we start to get a lot of comments here, pay attention. You'll likely see confirmation of recent trends in India. I suspect we're already seeing that, even with the few comments that have been posted so far.

I thought it will be different from Twitter and YouTube comments, sad to see Indian IT professionals being part of that too.

Majority of Indians IT professionals or majority who has attended college in India are upper caste folks, the main supporters of current ruling party. So the trend is not surprising.

Many of them migrated to West and continue to do the same caste things even in silicon valley. Google the Cisco caste discrimination incident.

Re: Indian lawmaker arrested after tweet criticising Narendra Modi

#87
post #50
post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Illegal construction, encroachment on public land will sometimes get this response. Illegal construction is rampant in india. Please contextualize the act of bulldozing with the riots that happened. Let's not be blind to the clear use of power and authority to specifically root out people of a certain cast. The level of politics being played out in India is nearing to the intellect of a badly scripted bollywood mov…

And bulldozing happens in non Muslim areas as well. Sometimes even middle class homes illegally built. Just as cities in the US clear homeless encampments.

Congress bulldozed a 300 year old temple in Rajasthan [0].

[0]: https://www.indiatoday.in/india/story/bulldozer-razes-300-ye...

Re: Indian lawmaker arrested after tweet criticising Narendra Modi

#88
post #78

A lot of people will surely have strong opinions on topics like this. And if true, then those strong opinions and voices are needed. But I don't think Hacker News is the right place for this since there is not even a single bit of tech relevance in this story.

> there is not even a single bit of tech relevance in this story

This story first came to my attention through a fellow LP in a VC fund currently deploying in India. If this is part of a broader pattern, it's relevant to anyone with or considering exposure to India, personally, financially or professionally.

Re: Indian lawmaker arrested after tweet criticising Narendra Modi

#89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

India never had freedom of speech. Opposition newspapers are often harassed and shut down. They have a law criminalizing offending religious feelings. This is not an exaggerated paraphrase, that’s what the law says. A scientist was convicted under this law a few years ago for demonstrating that a “weeping” statue of the Virgin Mary was not actually weeping blood. The truth was offensive, so the law applied. EDIT: I r…

Wasn’t Salman Rushdie’s satanic verses banned as well?

Along with several others of his works, and tons of other books, such as The deVinci Code. For various reasons such as being “poorly researched”. Here is a list of over 50 banned books:

https://sflc.in/read-me-not-list-banned-books-india

But there are others.

This is not a democracy.

Re: Indian lawmaker arrested after tweet criticising Narendra Modi

#90
post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed but this is not unique to the current federal government at all. Whoever is in power at the state or national level has used this power for their benefit. Case in point, office of a prominent Indian actor was broken by a state government which is the political rival of the government at national level, even after a high court order preventing them from doing so.

I seriously don't want to engage with whataboutry, but I'm going to reply to you with the tiniest hope that you might be willing to listen to reason. So first, i agree with you that power structures have always taken advantage of their position to shutdown their opposition. The reason that this has become significant enough in India for someone to take note and take action, is because of the blatant and frequent appl…

> engage with whataboutry,

If you really want to discuss with civility, don't start with an accusation. I agreed with the commenter that there is definitely political motive to these demolitions and it is definitely not right to not follow procedure even if these are illegal. My point is against this belief that this is something recent. It has been always like this, no matter who is in power. It might have increased or decreased; that I don't know without stats. I am old enough to have seen media being used to create narratives like WMD in Iraq to know not to go forward with the narrative pushing in media.

> The reason that this has become significant enough

> The scale is enormous and is not showing any signs of decreasing.

There is also a narrative in media that these communal incidents have increased recently. When I looked at data on this the last time in 2020, the crime record data pointed to much higher rates of communal violence in 80s and 90s than 2010s, so I will not be sure if it has increased or is it just fanned more in media.

I am also aware it can very well be that cases are being registered less that's why the stats seem lower.

> that too targeted towards a specific community

This is something I am concerned about though. There seems to be definitely increase in overt bigotry.

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