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A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem

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Re: A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem

#81

Post by jelliclesfarm »

I would walk away too. It is not about the glass. It is about ‘not being heard’. It is highly disrespectful. It is about his upbringing and a peek into his entire attitude towards others. It is also about his parents marriage or other marriages he has witnessed..and how he is trying to mimic it..because that’s what children do..internalize and imprint what they witness. I am reminded of Philip Larkin’s “This Be The Verse”.

I don’t give marriage advice to young girls, but if I were to..I would tell them to run..not walk away..if the potential mate cannot clean up after themselves.

To me, it’s a ginormous red flag if a full grown adult is messy..can’t make the bed..doesn’t pick up after themselves, leaves dirty dishes all around.

There is also a cultural caveat to this. I am Indian and boys are coddled more than girls(in my generation). A man who cannot take care of his mess screams mommy issues. There are other cultures too where boys are more prized than girls. I suspect it is not so much in the west. It seems like all kids here are raised by the state in public schools. I have some other thoughts but it’s best I keep them to myself.

My first thought was to suggest that no one should be taking marriage lessons from someone whose marriage has failed. The author includes himself as well when he says ‘this is how well intentioned people fall apart’. That is laughable to me. This is a passive aggressive dude who shouldn’t be married in the first place. She was honest in expressing her expectation and he wasn’t.

My second thought is that all marriages are short lived. When children are born, couples become child rearing partners. These partnerships last as long as the children are alive and mostly children outlive the parents.

Many marriages fray when parents become empty nesters or when tragedy strikes. And this is absolutely natural and necessary for sanity of human beings. The expectation of long perpetual marriages until death do them apart is macabre and the seed for future co dependency issues.

Renegotiating marriage terms every 3-5 years is the one of the ways to maintain healthy marriage partnerships. Marriages(long partnerships) and monogamy are not compatible with human nature. If that’s the desired outcome, there has to be an external force acting upon it continually to maintain integrity.

As far as ‘the little things’ are concerned, it is no different from what one may experience with room mates. I would recommend putting everything in writing and if possible, have separate rooms and/or bathrooms plus a shared bedroom. But that doesn’t make marriages natural either. Long successful marriages are not one long partnership..it is a series of multiple short term contracts negotiated between partners.

Re: A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem

#82

Post by rajin444 »

jayski wrote: post #24

Im 99% sure the wife in this story used the glass as an excuse to get out. If youre happy with the life youve built together and love your partner theres no way you leave it over something like this. I dont buy the "it shows disrespect" argument. Shes going to be with somebody else in a years time. But when youre in a bad situation and the other person isn't giving you a good reason to leave sometimes you have to get…

Definitely this. The writer (and many commenters here) are missing a very important distinction. Changing yourself is good and healthy but only when you want to. Changing for somebody else is toxic and will not work.

Marriage is a partnership, not a series of trade offs (in practice it will look like this, but it cannot be seen as this). Both sides should be grateful for the changes they make for one another as well as respect one another when they can’t change. In the case of the latter, it takes two people who believe in committing to one another no matter what. If two people marry without committing to the idea of a life long partnership it’s not going to work.

* Major Marriage Crimes excluded, sometimes people do change and there’s nothing you can do

Re: A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem

#83

Post by giantg2 »

snarf21 wrote: post #74
DanHulton wrote: post #22

There is a whole other potential article out there that could be written from the ex-wife's side - "My marriage died because I couldn't make this one simple sacrifice". And I suspect both would just as incorrect, at least by omission. The glass thing is a useful article hook, but it's unlikely that it encompasses the sole reason their marriage fell apart. There is a deeper issue here, about neither side being willing…

Divorced and looking back, the root cause of this (in my experience) is a lack of empathy. Love is easy to come by while empathy requires walking in someone else's shoes. I understand this Same Fight because I lived through that. It is never about that thing, it is about not being seen. As the author is processing his divorce, it is good he sees that there is value in doing something selflessly. However, I can't help…

"Force the other person to plan weeks of meals, keep the pantry stocked, etc. shines a bigger light on the unseen work and value each partner is providing."

If my wife were doing this, our grocery bill would double and it would all be frozen dinners and takeout. I'm not sure I trust her to do safety critical mechanic work either. So maybe switching isn't great for some tasks.

Edit: It seems people disagree. Why? All I'm saying is that not everyone is suited to doing all tasks and that switching for some of them might not work or could even be dangerous.

Re: A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem

#84

Post by LegitShady »

NortySpock wrote: post #48

"Is this hill worth dieing on?" is a question I occasionally ask myself. Other ways to put it: "Would taking 10 seconds to do this now make my wife 1% less stressed?" (If so, do the thing to make her less stressed.) "Is it worth starting a fight vs spending the same time just fixing the problem?" "Would spending $COST_OF_THING make my wife happy for a day / make a fond memory of us together?" (Hence why I encourage m…

> "Would taking 10 seconds to do this now make my wife 1% less stressed?"

An addition to this unrelated to marriage - if it takes 10 seconds, why isn't it already done instead of considering whether to do it or not?

I have a personal rule that unless I have another issue that requires attention right now (like working from home being work time, etc) If it take 5 minutes or less to do it I just do it right away and never let myself say 'I'll do it later' because 1/2 the time you don't do it later, and its easier to just finish it right away and never worry about it again.

Dishwasher finish? It takes 3 minutes to put away the dishes. Now your dishwasher is empty so it takes 5 seconds to put away dirty dishes. Dishwasher full? take 20 seconds to put in some detergent and get it started. 3 minutes + 10 seconds means you never have to deal with dirty dishes on the counter or in the sink.

Re: A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem

#85

Post by giantg2 »

Dobbs wrote: post #33
DanHulton wrote: post #22

There is a whole other potential article out there that could be written from the ex-wife's side - "My marriage died because I couldn't make this one simple sacrifice". And I suspect both would just as incorrect, at least by omission. The glass thing is a useful article hook, but it's unlikely that it encompasses the sole reason their marriage fell apart. There is a deeper issue here, about neither side being willing…

This isn't about the dishes. The dishes are just a symptom of the unequal divide of emotional labour in most relationships. Even in relationships where both parents work full time more often than not the majority of the mental and physical burden of running the house tends to fall onto the woman. Of course this isn't an absolute, but it does tend to hold true. You can see this at the outbreak of COVID where many wome…

"Even in relationships where both parents work full time more often than not the majority of the mental and physical burden of running the house tends to fall onto the woman."

I'd love to see the data on this.

Re: A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem

#86

Post by jancsika »

DanHulton wrote: post #22

There is a whole other potential article out there that could be written from the ex-wife's side - "My marriage died because I couldn't make this one simple sacrifice". And I suspect both would just as incorrect, at least by omission. The glass thing is a useful article hook, but it's unlikely that it encompasses the sole reason their marriage fell apart. There is a deeper issue here, about neither side being willing…

> I like the idea that a really good relationship is a 60/40 compromise, where both sides are struggling to be the 60. It sounds like both sides of this marriage were struggling to be the 40.

I'm picturing a therapist helping a refugee from Objectivism by suggesting to "compete on making the greater compromise, within a threshold" because that's easier to explain to them than cooperation.

Re: A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem

#87

Post by saturdaysaint »

I see the relationship coaches of this stripe all over all sorts of social media, and I just rarely if ever see insights that couldn't have been imparted by your average friendly stranger at a bar. What I mostly see are slightly-to-moderately damaged people who are articulate and engaging enough to find an audience of similarly damaged people who their experiences resonate with. This guy seems fairly innocuous (although this kind of rumination can also be unproductive!) but you see a lot of people fomenting bitterness. I would advise anyone I cared about to seek a credentialed therapist before turning to one of these self-appointed coaches.

Re: A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem

#88

Post by em-bee »

ay wrote: post #16
bluefirebrand wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the opposite side, if you don't like something that your partner does, and they don't seem to think it's a big deal, maybe take a step back and re-evaluate if it's really something that you need to be bothered by. If it is actually a problem, then yes, insist on it being fixed. If it is actually minor, maybe adjust your expectations and get over it. After all, that's also a form of listening and adjusting yourself…

My biggest takeaway is you can never really “insist on getting it fixed” without the damage to the relationship. You can state how it is important to you, explain why, and hope that the partner initiates the change to themselves. There is a subtle difference between the two; “push” vs “pull”, if you will.

what needs to be fixed is the disagreement itself. it doesn't matter how the issue in question gets fixed, but you need to come to an amicable solution.

this is only possible if both partners respect and care for each other and are willing to listen and support each others needs.

in the article when the author says that he'd want to agree to disagree he was not respecting his wife. he was basically saying: you are wrong, but i don't want to fight over this. that doesn't help. you need to work it out until there is an actual solution that both can agree with.

once you have solved one problem like this, it opens the door to approach more problems. i think it helps to start with smaller problems where the actual outcome doesn't matter. like it doesn't matter who gets their way with putting away the dishes. what matters is that each partner gets to share their feelings about the issue and that those feelings are being respected.

Re: A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem

#89

Post by ceejayoz »

snapcaster wrote: post #77
ceejayoz wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I still want an explanation as to how the aliens in that movie managed to miss that 70% of the planet is covered by a deadly poison, and that it literally falls from the sky in most places.

Because it was _holy_ water that damaged them because they are demons not aliens in the movie. There is actually no scene in that movie of a spaceship or anything that indicates it's aliens

There's no scene of a priest blessing cups of a kid's drinking water, either.

Re: A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem

#90

Post by giantg2 »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #75
bombcar wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a very important lesson - the chance of finding a "perfect" partner is vanishingly small if considered in the normal view - but the chance of finding someone who is willing to work together is higher. And most marriages are "arranged" in some way or another, we just like to pretend that random chance plays little part and somehow we've got it down to a science.

I can't recommend this book enough on the topic. TLDR Women are more picky then Men in the courtship marketplace, and finding a partner with matching values is most important to growing and staying together. People expect a fairy tale, when they're signing up for a job (relationships require work and effort). A quote from the author 10 years post publishing: “I think the book is really, ironically, about having highe…

"People expect a fairy tale, when they're signing up for a job."

This is worth reiterating.

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