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Microsoft is tied to hundreds of millions of dollars in foreign bribes

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Re: Microsoft is tied to hundreds of millions of dollars in foreign bribes

#81

Post by zelon88 »

igetspam wrote: post #57
Overtonwindow wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I work in government, and I remember a story told to me by a federal official who was involved in the arrest of a former member of congress for bribery. The official told me that, essentially what the congressman did was illegal under federal law, but it was what you had to do in order to "do business" in "those parts of the world." I found that interesting. With what is going on today in the world, between nations c…

While in India once, I ran into a friend from Google who was out there trying to build a data center. Total coincidence that we were both there at the same time. I was there to hire and train for another company and he was there to break ground. He'd been there for week and they'd yet to start doing more than some bare minimums related to surveys and permits. I was surprised that he was there at all, given the curren…

I'm somewhat confused.

Here in America when you want to accomplish something like open a new facility you basically force the potential municipalities into competing with each other to win your favor.

A big company will go to all the Chambers of Commerce in a given area and basically say "we're considering opening a 100,000 Sq ft facility and hiring 300 people. What incentives can you offer me if I build it here?"

Then the towns will bend over backwards, gut their taxes, ease their planning zones, and basically contort everything they can to become the most appealing location.

Is it just cheaper to skip this step and bribe the city in other parts of the world? Why doesn't this practice work or take place overseas?

Re: Microsoft is tied to hundreds of millions of dollars in foreign bribes

#82

Post by cute_boi »

civilized wrote: post #8

Microsoft spokesperson: "how dare you single us out, obviously everyone is doing this"

They also have habit of saying, "If we don't do this, Chinese company will do this and so what we are doing is clearly a benevolent act on humanity. To erase this blemish Microsoft shall donate 5 computer to Nigeria to help those poor kids to draw something in MS Paint"

Re: Microsoft is tied to hundreds of millions of dollars in foreign bribes

#83

Post by reincarnate0x14 »

VyseofArcadia wrote: post #3

Former Microsoftie here. After all the business ethics training videos I had to sit through, I am infuriated by this.

Many years ago, another division of my employer got caught bribing Nigeria. As a result, a bunch of people who were never in a position to do so had to sit through hours of ethics training. Some of it came with oddly specific examples. Halfway through one such lecture, in which we were being admonished to never accept a car from a customer, some engineer in the back did some quick mental arithmetic on his own salary versus costs of cars and asked "Which customers were giving out cars?"

We laughed. Instructor not so much.

Re: Microsoft is tied to hundreds of millions of dollars in foreign bribes

#84

Post by mc32 »

striking wrote: post #73
jimbob45 wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

His example was fine and doesn’t stand alone. Who’s to say that other countries don’t consider US lobbying to be a form of bribery? Realistically, no country is going to see their own bribery as actual bribery because no one wants to have to blatantly admit they’re the bad guy.

There are laws around transparency in lobbying in the US. It would be bribery if you didn't abide by those laws when conducting your lobbying activities.

Not Poster, but I agree to a degree. It’s defined as such but in practice it can have the effects of bribery. If so, is it then legal bribery?

Politicians set up foundations and then people or organizations coincidentally benefiting from some legislation donate or underwrite these foundations…

Re: Microsoft is tied to hundreds of millions of dollars in foreign bribes

#85

Post by yonaguska »

encryptluks2 wrote: post #9
lemoncookiechip wrote: post #6

> "What is a shock: This time around, the SEC and DOJ have both declined to investigate Microsoft over the same types of bribes in the Middle East and Africa. They acknowledged my evidence (which I submitted three times) yet did not take up the case, claiming that the current pandemic has prevented them from gathering more evidence from abroad—even though I have already provided documentation that I believe shows Mic…

The same bribes/kickbacks are very big in government contracts. Not sure what the DoJ would do when they would up investigating themselves.

The military industrial complex, and the intelligence communities are above the government. Investigations would never take place, unless they were fake and only to placate the public.

Lots of our dark foreign policy, is orchestrated through NGO's like the National Endowment for Democracy, where they then go on to do all kinds of illegal things in other countries. All is legal in the name of "national security".

Re: Microsoft is tied to hundreds of millions of dollars in foreign bribes

#86

Post by tombert »

goodpoint wrote: post #77
tombert wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it considered a "bribe" if it's a transaction between private companies? I would think that's just considered a "discount" at that point. Not saying it's right, I'm just saying that I thought there might be a legal distinction.

It is a bribe because it goes into the pockets of individuals rather than savings for the company.

Ah, fair enough...I didn't realize that was something that happened, though I suppose I should not be surprised; I'm now reasonably convinced that is the reason that anyone signed off on the use of Sharepoint.

Re: Microsoft is tied to hundreds of millions of dollars in foreign bribes

#87

Post by missedthecue »

otterley wrote: post #60
fallingknife wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From a moral standpoint I think we have to accept how other societies are run and act accordingly, and our laws should end at our borders.

That suggests that human beings are substantially different outside our borders, and that ethics are not universal.

I would say that's more or less observably true

Re: Microsoft is tied to hundreds of millions of dollars in foreign bribes

#88

Post by AlexanderTheGr8 »

zelon88 wrote: post #81
igetspam wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While in India once, I ran into a friend from Google who was out there trying to build a data center. Total coincidence that we were both there at the same time. I was there to hire and train for another company and he was there to break ground. He'd been there for week and they'd yet to start doing more than some bare minimums related to surveys and permits. I was surprised that he was there at all, given the curren…

I'm somewhat confused. Here in America when you want to accomplish something like open a new facility you basically force the potential municipalities into competing with each other to win your favor. A big company will go to all the Chambers of Commerce in a given area and basically say "we're considering opening a 100,000 Sq ft facility and hiring 300 people. What incentives can you offer me if I build it here?" Th…

I'm originally from a small part of India, and the logic is quite simple. In your example, 300 jobs = 300 votes. But it would require millions in incentives to the company. But the local politician can just "buy" 300 votes with 300,000 INR (indian currency; 1000 rupees for 1 vote). So there is no point spending so much money on a facility when you can simply buy all the votes you need.

Re: Microsoft is tied to hundreds of millions of dollars in foreign bribes

#89

Post by [deleted] »

pempem wrote: post #59
fallingknife wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't think that's necessary part of local culture > Ikea decided not to bribe officials, so they didn't get approval to build their shops here Pick one

The OP's comment feels like debating about origin. Is it due to local culture or the standard being set by external actors and their culture

[deleted]

Re: Microsoft is tied to hundreds of millions of dollars in foreign bribes

#90

Post by frozenlettuce »

tombert wrote: post #70
goodpoint wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's well known that Microsoft has been giving bribes even to small companies for many decades. The entity of the bribes from MS are above average.

Is it considered a "bribe" if it's a transaction between private companies? I would think that's just considered a "discount" at that point. Not saying it's right, I'm just saying that I thought there might be a legal distinction.

If the company is public traded, the IT manager is hurting the investors by accepting the bribes. If the company is owned by a family but big enough to have an IT department, well, they might solve their problems the Corleone way.
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