Tim Cook tells employees the return to offices will begin on April 11th • Hacker News Board

Re: Tim Cook tells employees the return to offices will begin on April 11th

#81

Post by BrianOnHN » Fri, Mar 04, 2022, 5:54 PM UTC

thisiscorrect wrote: post #69

BrianOnHN wrote: post #20

Love that all the companies (see also Google, Twitter) are utilizing the WW3-panic to sweep these announcements under the rug. How thoughtful! And props to Apple for adding that Friday PR synergy to the mix! Edit: my best attempt at a good faith argument here is this: it was a move that was supposed to be in sync with Biden's SOFU comments on returning to the office, but other breaking news affected the plan.

It's interesting to consider the group psychology aspect. During the 2020 summer protests, many also said that the huge crowds were not spreading covid. Maybe this is similar. When there is a larger issue people are focusing on, concerns about covid get pushed to the backburner. The real test will come when the Ukraine-Russia war subsides.

I'm sure the fact that protests are outside with the majority participants likely being mask wearers based on their affiliations also added to the risk calc.

Re: Tim Cook tells employees the return to offices will begin on April 11th

#82

Post by gedy » Fri, Mar 04, 2022, 5:54 PM UTC

throwaway1777 wrote: post #68

nostromo wrote: post #16

More people are dying with Covid now than were dying most of the previous two years, minus 4 peaks of various waves. I'm happy we're returning to normalcy, but it just makes me wonder "why now?" It's like the government and big business just decided overnight to declare "mission accomplished" when nothing substantial has changed. Last summer, for example, could have been the reopening, and we'd have better data and "…

Politics plain and simple. COVID protocols are very unpopular at this point and not every effective. Florida and Texas are having big inflows, california and New York huge outflows. Whatever your viewpoint this is the fact politicians see. And yes taxes and cost of living are a huge driving force not only COVID, but as long as remote work goes on people will keep moving to low cost of living and low tax states.

Elections coming up as well

Re: Tim Cook tells employees the return to offices will begin on April 11th

#83

Post by gdulli » Fri, Mar 04, 2022, 5:55 PM UTC

xienze wrote: post #54

gdulli wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Deaths and cases are both dropping sharply, and since deaths lag cases, the deaths should be expected to continue to drop steadily for a few more weeks. Something substantial has definitely changed. That's not the same as knowing there won't be future variants or spikes. But if there's ever a time to get back to normal, now would be it. It's not total victory and may never be, but at some point we either declare that…

> Something substantial has definitely changed. Yeah, it's called midterm elections are coming up and the Democrats are staring down the barrel of getting absolutely crushed if they continue on with mask and vaccine mandate policies.

That's nonsense. Mandates are going away because (1) mid-January was the predictable post-holiday travel and gathering spike, (2) several weeks later the numbers were predictably down, and then (3) lawmakers needed several more weeks to feel safe enough about the trend to act on it.

Lifting mandates now leaves enough time for another spike (followed by more restrictions) to arise before the elections. By your thinking that timing would be a disaster.

Lifting mandates 6-7 months from now would maximize the impact on the election and minimize the risk that restrictions will have to be rolled back before the election.

Everything is obviously political, but the conclusion that lifting mandates right now is strategically tied to elections in 8 months is so far from logical that I can't imagine arriving at it, only starting with it. The covid numbers provide a simple, logical explanation.

Re: Tim Cook tells employees the return to offices will begin on April 11th

#84

Post by hemloc_io » Fri, Mar 04, 2022, 5:55 PM UTC

gfodor wrote: post #51

nostromo wrote: post #16

More people are dying with Covid now than were dying most of the previous two years, minus 4 peaks of various waves. I'm happy we're returning to normalcy, but it just makes me wonder "why now?" It's like the government and big business just decided overnight to declare "mission accomplished" when nothing substantial has changed. Last summer, for example, could have been the reopening, and we'd have better data and "…

It’s not like they just decided - they did, they actually just decided. The change in cloth mask guidance proves it: no new data, we always knew they were ineffective.

Well there's new data it's just not health related.

"In fact, support for mask mandates has reached its lowest level since we began asking in August 2021. Now, a narrow majority (51%) support their state or local government requiring masks in public places compared to the roughly 63% that had over the last 6 months."

https://www.ipsos.com/en-us/news-polls/axios-ipsos-coronavir...

Re: Tim Cook tells employees the return to offices will begin on April 11th

#85

Post by aimor » Fri, Mar 04, 2022, 5:55 PM UTC

nostromo wrote: post #16

More people are dying with Covid now than were dying most of the previous two years, minus 4 peaks of various waves. I'm happy we're returning to normalcy, but it just makes me wonder "why now?" It's like the government and big business just decided overnight to declare "mission accomplished" when nothing substantial has changed. Last summer, for example, could have been the reopening, and we'd have better data and "…

I have the same questions. We've seen government and businesses try to be aggressive on relaxing lockdown policy in the past, and then quickly re-implement restrictions when the next wave of infections hit. Multiple times I've seen schools, government, offices set terms that had to be met before moving to the next 'phase' and every time those terms avoided their expectations they just declared that it was a bad plan to begin with, scrapped it, and moved on to implement whatever policy they wanted regardless of the current status.

I check https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/us/covid-cases.html to track how things are going. I don't like that, with ~2,000 people dying each day and Spring Break around the corner, the strongest push to reopen is happening now.

"Why now?" Just speculation, but: Because midterm elections are this year, because consumer spending is up and inflation is rising and the government wants to encourage the economy to remain strong, because businesses are seeing lower performance from employees especially regarding sensitive work, because ICUs have capacity and vaccines are readily available.

Re: Tim Cook tells employees the return to offices will begin on April 11th

#86

Post by jjulius » Fri, Mar 04, 2022, 5:55 PM UTC

nostromo wrote: post #16

More people are dying with Covid now than were dying most of the previous two years, minus 4 peaks of various waves. I'm happy we're returning to normalcy, but it just makes me wonder "why now?" It's like the government and big business just decided overnight to declare "mission accomplished" when nothing substantial has changed. Last summer, for example, could have been the reopening, and we'd have better data and "…

>More people are dying with Covid now than were dying most of the previous two years, minus 4 peaks of various waves.

And these people are overwhelmingly unvaccinated. At this point, it's been a year that vaccines have been available. You're not going to change their minds, and the rest of us - heartless as this sounds - shouldn't continue to be held back just because of other people's stubbornness. They made the decision not to get it, they should live with whatever consequences may result from that choice.

Edit: I realize that some people can't get it for various medical reasons, and I empathize with them. It's everyone else I'm referring to.

Re: Tim Cook tells employees the return to offices will begin on April 11th

#87

Post by ClumsyPilot » Fri, Mar 04, 2022, 5:55 PM UTC

sam0x17 wrote: post #46

8bitben wrote: post #4

Hard to see it going any other way given the massive real estate investments they have made.

Yes, they need to prove that commercial real estate still holds any value at all, though I'm not convinced seeing this incredible shift towards remote economy. I think they just burned a bunch of money to be honest. Maybe in 15 years we will see the Apple campus converted to high quality free public housing, which would be a good outcome for all and certainly would create more value for society than it does now.

> need to prove that commercial real estate still holds any value at all

You've hit the nail on the had, the entire human civilisation could reorganise around smaller cities without the commute to be more healthy, less polluting and more environmentally friendly

Instead we are witnessing whole COVID-is-gone theater only to protect parasite investors that 'invested' in assets that don't produce anything

Re: Tim Cook tells employees the return to offices will begin on April 11th

#88

Post by criddell » Fri, Mar 04, 2022, 5:56 PM UTC

xienze wrote: post #54

gdulli wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Deaths and cases are both dropping sharply, and since deaths lag cases, the deaths should be expected to continue to drop steadily for a few more weeks. Something substantial has definitely changed. That's not the same as knowing there won't be future variants or spikes. But if there's ever a time to get back to normal, now would be it. It's not total victory and may never be, but at some point we either declare that…

> Something substantial has definitely changed. Yeah, it's called midterm elections are coming up and the Democrats are staring down the barrel of getting absolutely crushed if they continue on with mask and vaccine mandate policies.

That’s how it should be, no? If constituents want to end a policy then their representative should work to do exactly that.

Re: Tim Cook tells employees the return to offices will begin on April 11th

#89

Post by space_fountain » Fri, Mar 04, 2022, 5:56 PM UTC

colinplamondon wrote: post #72

WithinReason wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> More people are dying with Covid now than were dying most of the previous two years, minus 4 peaks of various waves. There is a huge difference between "dying with COVID" and "dying from COVID".

That was true from the beginning. Legacy bureaucracies like the CDC are just recognizing what was clear in 2020.

Well, excess mortality was high earlier and is now low. The current Covid strain is both more infectious and less deadly so we should expect this change

Re: Tim Cook tells employees the return to offices will begin on April 11th

#90

Post by lokar » Fri, Mar 04, 2022, 5:56 PM UTC

endisneigh wrote: post #62

nostromo wrote: post #16

More people are dying with Covid now than were dying most of the previous two years, minus 4 peaks of various waves. I'm happy we're returning to normalcy, but it just makes me wonder "why now?" It's like the government and big business just decided overnight to declare "mission accomplished" when nothing substantial has changed. Last summer, for example, could have been the reopening, and we'd have better data and "…

RTO should’ve begun the minute it was shown that vaccines stop deaths. given that you have to be vaccines to rto at Apple it didn’t really make sense to wait this long anyway

And do you have to RTO if you have an immunocompromised family member at home?