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All His Life Has He Looked Away, to the Future...

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Re: All His Life Has He Looked Away, to the Future...

#81

Post by slashclee »

varunsrin wrote: post #48
ethank wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Again, "the question is: which approach is right?" assumes that either company COULD change their approach. Should they? Don't conflate what is reality with what could be. If that was the case there wouldn't be an iPad (or X-Box, or Metro).

Microsoft does not launch unfinished Xboxes (hardware + software product). Apple does not launch unfinished iPads (hardware + software product) Microsoft launches unfinished Windows builds (software). Apple launches unfinished Lion builds (software). The question is flawed in that it assumes that they companies have different release methodologies for the same class of products. Both Microsoft & Apple are making simi…

> Microsoft does not launch unfinished Xboxes (hardware + software product).

Tell that to the millions of Xbox 360 owners whose consoles died with the red ring of death.

Re: All His Life Has He Looked Away, to the Future...

#82

Post by neutronicus »

barista wrote: post #60
barista wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Only an apple fanboy can side with an opinion based on the color scheme and visual appearance of the site. :)

Note to self: Never make a joke about apple fanboys. They might have a better sense of design but poor comedic sense and would slam you down with downvotes.

I downvoted you because you used the word "fanboy". It's my policy.

Re: All His Life Has He Looked Away, to the Future...

#83

Post by illumin8 »

X-Istence wrote: post #75
georgemcbay wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hopefully they are working with ASUS to build something like the Transformer, but running Windows 8 and with an x86 chip. Because that is absolutely 100% what I want. I love my current Asus Transformer -- the convertible notebook/tablet form factor is the perfect system for doing the stuff tablets are good at while also being usable for doing actual writing and content-creation type tasks. The missing piece in the cu…

Windows 8 has been ported to ARM, so it doesn't even need to be x86.

Although I'd be willing to bet you need an x86 processor to run a full blown copy of Visual Studio 2012 or whatever release comes out with Windows 8.

It will be interesting to see how much of the first party software runs on ARM tablets. Will we get a full featured Office, or will it be PowerPoint/Word/Excel "lite" or viewers only? Will you need a stylus or will they actually redo the interface to be touch compatible?

There is an awful lot of software ecosystem that is completely incompatible with a touch UI. This is probably a bigger engineering task than the original change from 16-bit to 32-bit for Windows 95. I'm not so confident that Microsoft can pull it off in less than 18 months.

Re: All His Life Has He Looked Away, to the Future...

#84

Post by rhygar »

varunsrin wrote: post #22

> "I simply wish to direct your attention at how utterly different the two companies are." >"Me? I’d be appalled if Apple were to unveil something in the half- (if that) finished state of Windows 8 for tablets. I enjoy writing about what’s real" What Gruber claims to understand, but actually doesn't, is that the Microsoft ecosystem is a very different beast than the Apple ecosystem. Microsoft, unlike Apple, does not…

The majority of software on Windows boxes is pirated or free. Why would a developer write an app for Windows 8 if it's just going to be pirated endlessly?

http://www.windows8update.com/2011/04/28/windows-piracy-chin...

Re: All His Life Has He Looked Away, to the Future...

#85

Post by dorian-graph »

slashclee wrote: post #81
varunsrin wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Microsoft does not launch unfinished Xboxes (hardware + software product). Apple does not launch unfinished iPads (hardware + software product) Microsoft launches unfinished Windows builds (software). Apple launches unfinished Lion builds (software). The question is flawed in that it assumes that they companies have different release methodologies for the same class of products. Both Microsoft & Apple are making simi…

> Microsoft does not launch unfinished Xboxes (hardware + software product). Tell that to the millions of Xbox 360 owners whose consoles died with the red ring of death.

.. and all the iPhone users and the slew of hardware problems they faced.

Re: All His Life Has He Looked Away, to the Future...

#86

Post by eykanal »

ethank wrote: post #33
varunsrin wrote: post #22

> "I simply wish to direct your attention at how utterly different the two companies are." >"Me? I’d be appalled if Apple were to unveil something in the half- (if that) finished state of Windows 8 for tablets. I enjoy writing about what’s real" What Gruber claims to understand, but actually doesn't, is that the Microsoft ecosystem is a very different beast than the Apple ecosystem. Microsoft, unlike Apple, does not…

Not to defend Gruber here (since for some reason he is unpopular on HN), but I think that he does understand what you claim he doesn't. The point of his polemic is not that Microsoft is fundamentally different than Apple in approach and execution. Anyone can see that plain as day. It's not obfuscated in the least. The question is: which approach is right? Removing for a minute the preconceptions of "that's just how t…

Gruber is popular on HN because he consistently writes high quality, thought-provoking tech-related articles.

Gruber is unpopular because many of his pieces contain enough smug to choke a small giraffe.

Re: All His Life Has He Looked Away, to the Future...

#87

Post by barista »

neutronicus wrote: post #82
barista wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Note to self: Never make a joke about apple fanboys. They might have a better sense of design but poor comedic sense and would slam you down with downvotes.

I downvoted you because you used the word "fanboy". It's my policy.

You sir, must have a busy life here on HN.

Re: All His Life Has He Looked Away, to the Future...

#88

Post by georgemcbay »

X-Istence wrote: post #75
georgemcbay wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hopefully they are working with ASUS to build something like the Transformer, but running Windows 8 and with an x86 chip. Because that is absolutely 100% what I want. I love my current Asus Transformer -- the convertible notebook/tablet form factor is the perfect system for doing the stuff tablets are good at while also being usable for doing actual writing and content-creation type tasks. The missing piece in the cu…

Windows 8 has been ported to ARM, so it doesn't even need to be x86.

illumin8 pretty much covered this already but the reason I'm hoping for a good x86 version of this type of system is so I can run existing dev tools on the system, like Visual Studio, Eclipse, etc. AFAIK there is no plan for the ARM version to be able to run x86 software (and such emulation would be painfully slow even if they tried it).

My current ASUS Transformer is great for tablet stuff (touch UI games, the stereotypical 'couch surfing', etc) and the the keyboard dock makes it great for things like lengthy email writing, web forum participation and the basic types of word processing I do (not very demanding in that area). Where it falls down is that I can't really use it as a serious self-hosted development box. A similar system based on x86 and Win8 could be my everything-box: tablet, notebook, development machine, etc.

Re: All His Life Has He Looked Away, to the Future...

#89

Post by glhaynes »

Lewisham wrote: post #77
Steko wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly haven't used Lion myself but this seems to be a consensus view. "Incoherent mess" does not seem to be the consensus view. That said, I hereby reserve the right to come back in a few days under the unlikely circumstance that my machine blows up and (further unlikely circumstance) that I replace with a mac and tell you that it turns out I also find it to be an "incoherent mess".

Honestly haven't used Lion myself but this seems to be a consensus view. Don't sing its praises until you've tried it. Knocking my opinion based on your derivation of "consensus" is pretty dishonest. Launchpad/Mission Control are simply poor implementations of some sort of iOS-type experience that simply make no sense. Full screen mode on most apps is worse than Snow Leopard, the odd movement into a new screen as a s…

Nothing Steko said was dishonest. (S)he claimed that the consensus view is that Lion is pretty good, and, while numbers weren't provided, just looking at the mainstream papers/sites, strongly negative ones are a tiny minority.

Re: All His Life Has He Looked Away, to the Future...

#90

Post by pyre »

ethank wrote: post #34
CJCorona wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

that's not any different from when Apple released developer previews of Lion and iOS5. Are we seriously arguing over the 'finished' state of a developer build? Really?

No, what is being discussed is using a developer build of a very alpha-state software as a comparison point against something released that has tens of millions of devices in the market.

Gruber's argument started out as a criticism of Paul Thurott's comment that Windows 8 was the death knell for the iPad, but then he goes off into comparing Microsoft's and Apple's corporate release strategies... The criticism of the "Windows 8 kills iPad" comments is fair, but trying to group these tech pundits under the 'Windows' banner and use it to criticize Microsoft as a company is faulty logic at best (and purposely deceptive at worst).
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