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Remote work will break the US monopoly on global talent

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Re: Remote work will break the US monopoly on global talent

#81

Post by dragonelite »

AlexAltea wrote: post #38
JohnWhigham wrote: post #14

In the short term, I think it's going to be a lot harder than this article lets on, but long term, it is abundantly clear: cushy developer jobs in the US are on borrowed time. Salaries may continue to go up for a little while longer, but they will fall to reflect the rest of the world catching up with the US. And that's a scary prospect for those under 35 now. And I don't think there's a way out of it. We embrace rem…

I disagree, I don't see how the supply/demand ratio of talent will significantly change by remote work. Companies will pick from a larger pool of people. People will pick from a larger pool of companies.

There is quiet some supply but the demand is in capable and a bit more senior people, I'm told. But hey if it means with remote work US tech company can fish for Dutch talent and raise the average pay here in the Netherlands I'm all for it.

Already had a talk with friends about it, before the pandemic remote gig work was hard where we live, but now that working from home is more accepted. It should be a lot more attractive for urban companies to hire remote workers in the rural parts.

Re: Remote work will break the US monopoly on global talent

#82

Post by bwb »

DeathArrow wrote: post #57
bwb wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tons of people want to move to the USA for nature, stability, pay, freedom of expression, freedom of speech/religion/life, low corruption, house prices are low compared to many many places, mixing pot, opportunity, american dream etc... The power of the American narrative is huge. I know so many devs in Brazil who want to live to USA or Germany, as well as many other places. Those places have problems at a much highe…

>Tons of people want to move to the USA for nature, stability, pay, freedom of expression, freedom of speech/religion/life, low corruption, house prices are low compared to many many places, mixing pot, opportunity, american dream etc... High level of crime, too much politics, education too expensive, healthcare too expensive, no public pension funds.

Totally agreed with you :)

But the key point being narrative around the American dream, freedom of religion/expression, and all the other things I mentioned. Moving to a new place and taking a risk is a feeling based decision. Sure we might dress it up with some logic, but at the end of the day the USA has soft power in spades.

Re: Remote work will break the US monopoly on global talent

#83

Post by sweezyjeezy »

bwb wrote: post #18
sweezyjeezy wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't think the article is arguing that 'broken' countries are poised to benefit here? They specifically say "political and monetary stability". The US does not have a monopoly on that worldwide. In terms of affordability - the US is one of the least affordable places - do you have any idea what an entry-level SE salary can get you in other countries?

Agreed, but if you read down the list the author notes in that list Panama, Croatia, which while beautiful and stable in some ways... are also knows for corruption and other issues. The USA is very affordable if you look outside of SF/NY and compare it to Western Europe (esp with tech pay). What are you comparing it too?

It's certainly affordable with tech pay - but... that's the point of the article isn't it? Tech pay is sky high because US is overvaluing US talent. Most millennials in the US cannot afford to buy a home here.

Agreed Panama is a bad example, but not Croatia - it's politically stable, and I don't believe many people leave because of corruption.

Re: Remote work will break the US monopoly on global talent

#84

Post by dragonelite »

eb0la wrote: post #65

I don't believe the US has a monopoly on talent. The US has a monopoly on being able to go to market. US corporations are extremely efficient getting funds, putting that capital to work, and deliver a product people want to buy. Historically they got that advantage because (among other factors) their internal market is HUGE, and successful US products were also appealing in other countries. As I said there are other…

Its a winner takes all and the winners have been decided 20 years ago here in the west. You need something like what China did with a closed off garden where their own thousand flowers can bloom and grow strong enough to compete on the global market.

Re: Remote work will break the US monopoly on global talent

#85

Post by eb0la »

GekkePrutser wrote: post #20
0xy wrote: post #7

I don't buy it, US tech salaries continue to skyrocket and we're nearly two years into pandemic conditions. Just over the last 6-9 months, salaries have markedly jumped. There's still a huge thirst for talent that isn't being quenched, and global pools don't help either. Facebook, Google and others have satellite offices all over to soak up talent elsewhere, but they're still ultra competitive in the US. They can pay…

Still, I find the quality of life in Spain preferable. We have a government health system paid through taxes, no guns on the streets, not much pollution, amazing public transport, 4 weeks holidays and good weather. I prefer having those things as a safety net instead of having to pay for them myself. I really love not needing a car here at all, I haven't driven in years. I was recently offered a job in silicon valley…

Where do you live? If you have kids in Madrid it is almost mandatory to have a car.

Imho the best place to live in Spain is in a 'capital de provicia': you have all the services the law mandates but it is not crowded.

Re: Remote work will break the US monopoly on global talent

#86

Post by LurkingPenguin »

londons_explore wrote: post #67
sys_64738 wrote: post #45

I've seen what it requires for an individual to be in a country other than the USA and the US-based company not wanting to treat them as an employee due to the paperwork. That generally means they need to be an independent contractor so individual needs to set up a company in their own country and deal with all the issues associated with that and the tax implications. Most smaller companies won't deal with foreign em…

There are plenty of labor sourcing companies who will happily do all the paperwork (and take on the legal risk) for you to hire someone in a foreign country, but in fact you pay the labor company some fixed hourly rate, and they hire the worker as an employee. It's a good model, because then when the laws of the foreign country change to say "Women's average salaries must match mens" or "Workers shall be paid 2x rate…

> All those cases can be dealt with by the foreign company who knows the local laws and customs.

I haven't seen it mentioned here but while in many cases you can as an employer outsource payroll and labor law compliance, you can never completely shed the potential liabilities that come with employing someone and this can get complicated when your workforce is based in different countries.

There are a lot of things that can go wrong. Your payroll/compliance vendor could screw the pooch. Your foreign-based employee could do something negligent or malicious that leaves you in a legal bind where your costs of protecting your interests skyrocket. And your employment of an individual in certain countries could subject you to laws and taxes you never even knew about.

Of course, a growing number of companies do employ remote workers around the world but it's really not as simple as "I can hire anyone in any country as long as they are talented". The world simply isn't that flat.

Re: Remote work will break the US monopoly on global talent

#87

Post by matsuokk »

cromka wrote: post #34
bwb wrote: post #3

I find this a bit far fetched, with as many problems as the USA has it still has a solid reputation as a place you can come and make a new life with low corruption, a justice system, free speech, affordability, and on the local/state level a government/bureaucracy that still works. Same goes for Germany and countries that provide a high quality of life for their people. I understand the idea, but there is a reason pe…

> low corruption I’m sorry, what? Ask anyone in NYC what they think of the corruption. Ask them if they feel that the taxes they pay are put to a good use. Ask what they think of MTA, of the unions, of the mafia connections. And ask any expat what they think of lobbying, a.k.a. legal corruption.

I love paying taxes in NYC. I estimate NYC taxpayers saved me ~$100K in medical bills when I unexpectedly needed surgery and qualified for low-income Medicare coverage. I love that I’m again a heavy contributor to that system and happily so. And I love watching bike lanes built left and right, I love the city buying up empty lots to build parks, I love the Marathon, the “5 Boro” bike tour, the incredible (and heavily subsidized) ferry service, the public school free lunch programs, the vaccine outreach campaigns, the reliable snow removal, and the wonderful collection of libraries and museums and public spaces that are free and open to me. I love that the city cuts long-term lease deals with multi-tenant property owners to guarantee supply of low-income housing. A bunch of my friends grew up in that kind of housing and some of my sweetest neighbors live there now. I think MTA is one of the very BEST features of this or any world-class city — trains run all night! And it makes me super happy whenever I’m going somewhere at 5am and the train is packed with workers in steel-toed boots and jackets with local union patches commuting to the job site. I think my taxes are spent well enough — I know this because I love living here and have never given a serious thought to leaving for tax avoidance or whatever other fake drama is being projected onto this city from afar.

Re: Remote work will break the US monopoly on global talent

#88

Post by jleyank »

ctvo wrote: post #32
Oddskar wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you overestimate the reputation of the US and underestimate how much it has rapidly declined the last decades. I also think you underestimate how much effort it takes to really start over and become properly integrated in a new country. It is a very enticing prospect for many to side-step this issue entirely and still get an almost unfathomable salary for some countries.

> I think you overestimate the reputation of the US and underestimate how much it has rapidly declined the last decades. How has it rapidly declined? Please list the ways. I don't necessarily disagree, but I am curious.

Behaviour of the conservative side of the country has been grim the last 10+ years, unless you’re white. Overall, the country is right-centre as compared to the western world. Politics is constant yet government is in gridlock. Health care is costly and intermittent being tied to employment. Social cohesion and support isn’t particularly good. But there’s money to be had if you don’t mind the cost.

Re: Remote work will break the US monopoly on global talent

#89

Post by torginus »

This is a bit off topic, but wrt working for an US company - US programming salaries are weird - it used to be a decade ago, that programming salaries were roughly in line with other domains in engineering, while most places required a STEM degree as well, meaning both engineering and CS employed roughly the same talent pool at similar wages. Imo, this estimation still holds in the rest of the world, but CS salaries in the US have skyrocketed, while companies opened up to the idea of hiring any enterprising leetcoder.

Re: Remote work will break the US monopoly on global talent

#90

Post by Asooka »

nabla9 wrote: post #35

Remote work favors efficient performers on their own to-do lists. In the short term, it will can be super productive Remote work does not work when part of the job is helping others, learning from others. Figuring out things.

I have no trouble helping and communicating with people remotely. Some days most of my time is spent helping others and it's a lot easier over the internet, since I can switch between people rapidly and have several conversations going at once.
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