Lambda School leaked documents show poor performance over the last two years • Hacker News Board

Re: Lambda School leaked documents show poor performance over the last two years

#81

Post by notJim » Mon, Oct 25, 2021, 6:20 PM UTC

dnautics wrote: post #28

whoisjuan wrote: post #19

In their eagerness to disrupt traditional education, all these programs forgot that the one single thing that makes traditional university education succesful is teaching people with aptitude and drive. To get accepted and graduate from a reputable university you have to get good results in standardized tests and work your self through multiple courses for at least 3 years. That by itself doesn't mean anything but th…

> one single thing that makes traditional university education succesful is aptitude and drive. Networking, connections, and (external) credentialism?

I honestly think these things are somewhat overrated. If you want to work at Google right out of school, maybe they matter more (particularly credentialism.) But I got my first three tech jobs simply by applying on the website, including one at a well-regarded startup. I don't have a CS degree, didn't have connections, and have never networked in my life.

I think what actually mattered was laddering up from a sorta-crappy place to a less-crappy place to an actually-good place, and consciously filling in gaps in my skills, especially those relevant for interviewing. When I interviewed at the well-regarded startup, for some reason someone asked me to implement merge sort (lol!) Well, fortunately I had skimmed the algorithm on the plane over, on the off chance someone asked me.

I could definitely get an interview at a FAANG at this point, because their recruiters reach out to me. As to whether I could get the job, I think it would mostly depend on my luck, skills, and preparation.

Re: Lambda School leaked documents show poor performance over the last two years

#82

Post by herbturbo » Mon, Oct 25, 2021, 6:22 PM UTC

sam0x17 wrote: post #24

It isn't just Lambda School. I mentor for [insert large coding bootcamp here] and I will say things have been going badly across the board for more than 50% of students. They recently had to cut a lot of staff, and completion rates seem to hover around only 50-60% when you take into account all the students they remove from this calculation when they withdraw for "personal reasons". The employment numbers I don't hav…

  That said, two of our best junior devs (at Arist YC S20) are Lambda School and Ironclad grads respectively, and neither of them had any background in programming and went right from bootcamp into their current positions. So it definitely works for some people.

Isn't that just a case of some students having natural ability where a large percentage do not? If being a good developer was only about knowing syntax and writing efficient algorithms boot camps would work fine.

Re: Lambda School leaked documents show poor performance over the last two years

#83

Post by tayo42 » Mon, Oct 25, 2021, 6:23 PM UTC

felistoria wrote: post #78

Are there any reputable bootcamps? Serious question as someone who wants to transition from IT Management to programming.

why do you feel you need a bootcamp? open a text editor and start programing

Re: Lambda School leaked documents show poor performance over the last two years

#84

Post by ptudan » Mon, Oct 25, 2021, 6:23 PM UTC

Anyone else think using the placement rate from the first half of 2020 is a bit cherry picked? That's right when covid hit and hiring froze eveywhere. Yes it picked back up by the end of the year, but in April 2020 I can only assume that the demand for bootcamp graduates was at its lowest. Bluechip companies like Airbnb were reneging on offers to ivy league candidates. It was a unique period in time.

Re: Lambda School leaked documents show poor performance over the last two years

#85

Post by katmannthree » Mon, Oct 25, 2021, 6:26 PM UTC

It's not just lambda. There's another bootcamp, lets call it crap college, which effectively asks their ~~customers~~, sorry, _students_ to work 10+ hours a day 6-7 days a week for months.

If you fail or withdraw, you have to pay back prorated tuition at the rate of several hundred dollars per day you were there. There is no grace period, if you get three days in and decide it's not for you then you owe them almost a thousand dollars.

Ever worse: their instructional material is very much lacking rigor, the degree of guidance they provide is far lower than you'd get at a community college (which would also be a lot cheaper), and the whole vibe of the community borders on cult-like toxic positivity (any criticism of the company will get you kicked out).

It's very close to predatory. They lure in disadvantaged people with promises of vastly improving their lives, but I'm betting a substantial percentage of them leave with thousands in debt and virtually nothing to show for it. And the best part? If you're dismissed or withdraw that nice easy-to-pay income share agreement goes away and you just owe them thousands effective immediately regardless of your financial situation.

Re: Lambda School leaked documents show poor performance over the last two years

#86

Post by gameswithgo » Mon, Oct 25, 2021, 6:27 PM UTC

bwing wrote: post #70

I was at Lambda when they announced the switch from 9 to 6 months and the elimination of paid team leaders. The feedback was universally negative. In a channel for open student discussion, Austen Allred deleted a poll from Slack because of how lopsided the reaction was. He explained the deletion by saying the poll was "misleading." Students then got a survey "explaining" why the change was actually a good thing by as…

Why don't companies just speak plainly about these kinds of changes? "We are doing this to cut costs, which we need to do to [Survive/Buy a Yacht/Whatever]"

People tend to be really understanding when you are brutally honest, and brutally cynical when you bullshit them even a little.

Re: Lambda School leaked documents show poor performance over the last two years

#87

Post by woah » Mon, Oct 25, 2021, 6:28 PM UTC

sam0x17 wrote: post #66

torben-friis wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why not teach them functional concepts (map, filter, reduce, etc are well supported and comfortable) and leave the horrors of Js classes alone?

They run into enough problems with objectness just learning map / filter / reduce. I've seen so many angry / frustrated students trying to use a for each loop to iterate over an Array only to find that although this works in most languages, in js these just loop over the fucking KEYS of the object (which now opens up the discussion about how `obj[1]` is not a key but `obj['hey']` is a key and the differences therein.

Kind of crazy that nobody taught them to use "for of" instead of "for in". Maybe make a linter that marks "for in" as a syntax error

Re: Lambda School leaked documents show poor performance over the last two years

#88

Post by throwawaygh » Mon, Oct 25, 2021, 6:30 PM UTC

temp8964 wrote: post #77

mplewis wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Send me your bank's routing number and your checking account number and I'll be happy to explain.

What? Do I have any signed agreement with you?

Lambda School has no business knowing about:

* their students' alimony payments

* their students' other court awards

* their students' pensions

* their students' disability payments

* their students' spouse's income

* their student's spouse's alimony, other court awards, pensions, disability payments, etc.

Agreeing to payment is not the same as agreeing to financial surveillance.

If Lambda School believes one of their students is not living up to their income sharing agreement, then they should simply ask the student. If they have a reason to disbelieve a specific student, then they can go to court.

"Let me see all info on regular deposits into your bank account because I'm too lazy and unprofitable to do this in a way that's not creepy and abusive" is NOT reasonable.

Re: Lambda School leaked documents show poor performance over the last two years

#89

Post by ericb » Mon, Oct 25, 2021, 6:31 PM UTC

spoonjim wrote: post #79

sam0x17 wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This one particular student sticks with me. He was in his 60s-70s, and had a burgeoning career in IT/Security in the late 90s, but quit his job to take care of his ailing mother around 2001 or so. He took care of her, living off of her reverse mortgage for 20 years, but now she has passed away, and the term of the reverse mortgage ends soon (or I believe by now has ended) so the bank will be re-posessing his house, h…

Does any country do a decent job of retraining 70 year old men for developer positions? This does not need to be a high priority for a society if the 70 year old can afford a roof of their head and a meal.

I don't think that's the issue. The issue is that the United States provides such a poor safety net for those with health issues that one person's failing health destroys the economic potential of one or more people around them.

From a sheer utilitarian perspective, healthcare and safety nets are positive ROI. Imagine the job-producing startups that don't exist because "how do you pay for insurance?"

Re: Lambda School leaked documents show poor performance over the last two years

#90

Post by felistoria » Mon, Oct 25, 2021, 6:31 PM UTC

tayo42 wrote: post #83

felistoria wrote: post #78

Are there any reputable bootcamps? Serious question as someone who wants to transition from IT Management to programming.

why do you feel you need a bootcamp? open a text editor and start programing

I've actually been off and on programming for a few years and have done my tour in tutorial hell on Udemy. Just thought maybe a bootcamp would give me experience programming with a team like you would at a job. I also have a unique opportunity next year where I will have 6 months off paid, which I plan to spend programming full time. Thought a bootcamp may be a good way to spend that time.