Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Facebook settles federal lawsuit over allegations it favored foreign applicants

npr.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

81–90 of 107 posts

Re: Facebook settles federal lawsuit over allegations it favored foreign applicants

#81

Post by mint2 »

joshuamorton wrote: post #68
tapatio wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"who's qualified" I suspect the qualifications are different depending on your citizenship.

Why would this be? Citizens and residents get the same pay and benefits. If anything, employing a noncitizen is more work because you have to manage the whole immigration process. What's in it for the company?

Not really, if they aren’t attracting domestic talent when they post a job at $xyz but would have if they would pay $qrs, but instead of increasing their offers they go find an H1b that will take $xyz then it’s suppressing wages and cheaper for the company in the long run

Re: Facebook settles federal lawsuit over allegations it favored foreign applicants

#82

Post by lostmsu »

stadium wrote: post #80
lostmsu wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am not sure why you equate diversity with inclusion. It's hard to see why members of a team 100% consisting of folks from Laos would feel less "included" in the work/company life than a team of 80% folks from Laos and 20% from Peru.

It's generally accepted now that more diversity has multiple business benefits, from IC level up to board of directors. And paid referrals tend to attract similar demographics and backgrounds. I only have anecdotal data. I honestly didn't read the article, Google can give you more info/data than I can. I vaguely recall HBR has had some good articles on it the last couple of years.

I'll take it as no data then.

Re: Facebook settles federal lawsuit over allegations it favored foreign applicants

#83

Post by giobox »

NovemberWhiskey wrote: post #44
jaywalk wrote: post #3

Up to $14.25 million in fines and restitution for defrauding the H-1B program and screwing over US citizens. Facebook won't even blink an eye at that amount. How about barring them from the H-1B program for 5 years? I think that would be a great start.

No, this is not about H-1B visas. If you read the article carefully you'll see this is about employment-based immigrant visas - i.e. green cards.

A green card is _not_ an employment based immigrant visa or even a visa at all - the H-1B is. A green card holder has permanent residency and can apply for largely any job a US citizen can. Further they are not required to leave the country on becoming unemployed.

The immigrant visa is usually a stepping stone to permanent residency via a green card though, and this lawsuit is absolutely related to that process - when applying for permanent residency (green card) on an H-1B, the employer must supposedly prove they couldn’t hire an American to do same job. This is usually called the “PERM process”.

There has always been a gray area as to what that standard means, I’ve seen different companies interpret it very differently. When we talk about employment based immigrant visas and Facebook, it is overwhelmingly the H-1B (the data on visas issued is public).

Re: Facebook settles federal lawsuit over allegations it favored foreign applicants

#84

Post by 988747 »

nrmitchi wrote: post #61
hash872 wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>the US immigration system ties visas to a single employer While this is true for the L1 and one other (I believe J1), I don't understand why people believes this to be true for H1Bs. It's simply false- H1Bs can transfer employers, it just takes a couple of weeks and some paperwork, and thousands do it every year. I know a number of folks professionally who've done it without hassle, and I know a couple people in my…

> H1Bs can transfer employers, it just takes a couple of weeks and some paperwork My understanding is that yes, this is technically true. However it's not a H1B holder telling the government "I'm taking this new job, FYI", as much as requesting that your transfer be approved. The risk that the transfer will not be, and you're stuck in limbo of returning to the position you just quit, does exist. For people on these s…

Yes, US immigration system is a mess. I considered emigrating there once, but I would never agree to the kind of slavery that comes with H-1B visa or similar. Last few years, I've been submitting my application for Green Card lottery, because winning it is pretty much the only way of emigrating that doesn't suck, despite small chances of being selected.

Re: Facebook settles federal lawsuit over allegations it favored foreign applicants

#85

Post by NovemberWhiskey »

giobox wrote: post #83
NovemberWhiskey wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, this is not about H-1B visas. If you read the article carefully you'll see this is about employment-based immigrant visas - i.e. green cards.

A green card is _not_ an employment based immigrant visa or even a visa at all - the H-1B is. A green card holder has permanent residency and can apply for largely any job a US citizen can. Further they are not required to leave the country on becoming unemployed. The immigrant visa is usually a stepping stone to permanent residency via a green card though, and this lawsuit is absolutely related to that process - whe…

An H-1B is an employment-based non-immigrant visa; which is to say that it doesn't lead to a right to remain permanently in the U.S.

A green card (I-551) is indeed, not a visa, and I was speaking informally when I described it as such. It is a document that proves the holder is a permanent legal resident, which is an immigration status. The right to permanent legal residence is established through an immigrant visa, such as the EB visas for employment-based immigration.

If you are already in the U.S. on an H-1B visa, your employer will file an I-140 petition for (e.g.) an EB-1 visa. Once a visa is available (this is the long wait for Indian/Chinese applicants in many categories), you can then file a I-485 application for adjustment of status on the basis of the approved I-140 petition. Assuming the I-485 application is approved, then you will receive the I-551 "green card" as proof.

In short: yes, the story is exactly about employment-based immigrant visas.

Re: Facebook settles federal lawsuit over allegations it favored foreign applicants

#86

Post by [deleted] »

NovemberWhiskey wrote: post #85
giobox wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A green card is _not_ an employment based immigrant visa or even a visa at all - the H-1B is. A green card holder has permanent residency and can apply for largely any job a US citizen can. Further they are not required to leave the country on becoming unemployed. The immigrant visa is usually a stepping stone to permanent residency via a green card though, and this lawsuit is absolutely related to that process - whe…

An H-1B is an employment-based non-immigrant visa; which is to say that it doesn't lead to a right to remain permanently in the U.S. A green card (I-551) is indeed, not a visa, and I was speaking informally when I described it as such. It is a document that proves the holder is a permanent legal resident, which is an immigration status . The right to permanent legal residence is established through an immigrant visa,…

[deleted]

Re: Facebook settles federal lawsuit over allegations it favored foreign applicants

#87

Post by giobox »

NovemberWhiskey wrote: post #85
giobox wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A green card is _not_ an employment based immigrant visa or even a visa at all - the H-1B is. A green card holder has permanent residency and can apply for largely any job a US citizen can. Further they are not required to leave the country on becoming unemployed. The immigrant visa is usually a stepping stone to permanent residency via a green card though, and this lawsuit is absolutely related to that process - whe…

An H-1B is an employment-based non-immigrant visa; which is to say that it doesn't lead to a right to remain permanently in the U.S. A green card (I-551) is indeed, not a visa, and I was speaking informally when I described it as such. It is a document that proves the holder is a permanent legal resident, which is an immigration status . The right to permanent legal residence is established through an immigrant visa,…

It’s almost entirely about PERM interviews conducted by Facebook for their H-1B holders looking to adjust status, yes. My main issue is with your earlier statement that this has nothing to do with the H-1B, when it almost exclusively concerns H-1B visa holders at Facebook in practice.

Re: Facebook settles federal lawsuit over allegations it favored foreign applicants

#88

Post by NovemberWhiskey »

giobox wrote: post #87
NovemberWhiskey wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An H-1B is an employment-based non-immigrant visa; which is to say that it doesn't lead to a right to remain permanently in the U.S. A green card (I-551) is indeed, not a visa, and I was speaking informally when I described it as such. It is a document that proves the holder is a permanent legal resident, which is an immigration status . The right to permanent legal residence is established through an immigrant visa,…

It’s almost entirely about PERM interviews conducted by Facebook for their H-1B holders looking to adjust status, yes. My main issue is with your earlier statement that this has nothing to do with the H-1B, when it almost exclusively concerns H-1B visa holders at Facebook in practice.

It would equivalently apply to petitions for immigrant visas where applicants would be outside the U.S. and apply via consular processing. Or for employees on intracompany transferee L-1 visas.

The PERM process is specifically a prerequisite to an I-140 petition for immigrant visa. Anything assertion that Facebook was "defrauding the H-1B program" is completely spurious.

Re: Facebook settles federal lawsuit over allegations it favored foreign applicants

#89

Post by ffggvv »

triceratops wrote: post #23
ldjkfkdsjnv wrote: post #11

I actually dont think its the corporation doing this, its just their ranks are filled with mostly H1Bs, who want to hire other H1Bs from their home countries. This practice is absolutely rampant in tech companies. Orgs and departments commonly organize along racial and country of origin lines. I see this at some of the most well known tech companies. Yet I never hear a word spoken of it

You're essentially saying the practice of using referrals in hiring should be ended.

it has nothing to do with referrals. its people who never met eachother but favor each other based on country of origin. such that certain orgs don't speak english at all

Re: Facebook settles federal lawsuit over allegations it favored foreign applicants

#90

Post by stadium »

lostmsu wrote: post #82
stadium wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's generally accepted now that more diversity has multiple business benefits, from IC level up to board of directors. And paid referrals tend to attract similar demographics and backgrounds. I only have anecdotal data. I honestly didn't read the article, Google can give you more info/data than I can. I vaguely recall HBR has had some good articles on it the last couple of years.

I'll take it as no data then.

Do you want data on how diversity is beneficial to the bottom line? Or how paid referrals can contribute to homogenized employee demographics and less diversity?

If you are truly curious and want to have a meaningful conversation I'm all for that. Otherwise there is plenty of material out there for you to google/research yourself.

Post reply on HN