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Facebook settles federal lawsuit over allegations it favored foreign applicants

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Re: Facebook settles federal lawsuit over allegations it favored foreign applicants

#61

Post by nrmitchi »

hash872 wrote: post #53
mataug wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The only way to eliminate foreigners undercutting American salaries is to eliminate the foreign labor supply competition. The problem isn't foreign labor supply, its that the foreign nationals are forced to stick around at bad employers due to the way US immigration is tied to employment instead of credentials and skills. Comparing US and Canada, A foreign national in Canada who graduates from a STEM degree, and ob…

>the US immigration system ties visas to a single employer While this is true for the L1 and one other (I believe J1), I don't understand why people believes this to be true for H1Bs. It's simply false- H1Bs can transfer employers, it just takes a couple of weeks and some paperwork, and thousands do it every year. I know a number of folks professionally who've done it without hassle, and I know a couple people in my…

> H1Bs can transfer employers, it just takes a couple of weeks and some paperwork

My understanding is that yes, this is technically true. However it's not a H1B holder telling the government "I'm taking this new job, FYI", as much as requesting that your transfer be approved. The risk that the transfer will not be, and you're stuck in limbo of returning to the position you just quit, does exist.

For people on these statuses, any required interaction with USCIS can be anxiety inducing.

While it may not technically be tied to a single employer, it's not fair to say that holders have the same flexibility to switch jobs as permanent residents/citizens.

Re: Facebook settles federal lawsuit over allegations it favored foreign applicants

#62

Post by justapassenger »

jaywalk wrote: post #3

Up to $14.25 million in fines and restitution for defrauding the H-1B program and screwing over US citizens. Facebook won't even blink an eye at that amount. How about barring them from the H-1B program for 5 years? I think that would be a great start.

FAANGs are always hiring. Any US citizen, who's qualified, can get a job there at any point in time.

Re: Facebook settles federal lawsuit over allegations it favored foreign applicants

#63

Post by nrmitchi »

fasteddie31003 wrote: post #51
PrinceRichard wrote: post #49

Why is this a problem? Why are we trying to manipulate Facebook's hiring practices? We may not like it, but they should be free to hire whomever they please.

I'd recommend looking into H1B laws. By law you can only give out H1B visas if you cannot find an American worker to do the job.

This may also be a nit-picking response, but the sponsoring company is not the one "giving out" H1B visas. They can sponsor it, and request it, but visas are only issued by the US government.

Re: Facebook settles federal lawsuit over allegations it favored foreign applicants

#64

Post by firstfewshells »

1cvmask wrote: post #41

From the article: The government said Facebook intentionally created a hiring system in which it denied qualified U.S. workers a fair opportunity to learn about and apply for jobs that it instead sought to channel to temporary visa holders. - At the scale Facebook operates at and the number of employees they hire it makes a huge material advantage for them to hire cheaper foreigners for the same task. It is rational…

I think you're living in a bubble if you still believe foreigners working at FAANG are underpaid compared to the native population. You are paid as per your level.

Re: Facebook settles federal lawsuit over allegations it favored foreign applicants

#65

Post by kfprt »

toast0 wrote: post #48
BeetleB wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Disregarding slowdowns due to both Trump's slashing of funding and COVID, for the majority of H-1B holders, it is a 2-3 year pathway. People think otherwise because they have a special (very lengthy) backlog for Indians, and to some extent Chinese. Until about 2018, if you were from another country, 3 years was longer than the average to convert H-1B to a Green Card. Lots of people would get it in less than 2 years.

Are you sure the majority of H-1B holders aren't in that lengthy backlog? If this random page [1] is close to correct, people from India were granted half the H-1Bs, and China another nearly 10%, so it already started witrh a majority being backlogged from issuance, then as others clear the backlog in say 3 years and these take much longer, the holder demographic becomes even more of a majority of people waiting for…

The risk there is that some states might start deciding that they want to do something different than what everyone else wants, and they'd be a country afterall.

Re: Facebook settles federal lawsuit over allegations it favored foreign applicants

#66

Post by gimmeThaBeet »

NovemberWhiskey wrote: post #58
fasteddie31003 wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd recommend looking into H1B laws. By law you can only give out H1B visas if you cannot find an American worker to do the job.

Actually, recommend you read into it at a little as you're completely wrong on that point. An H-1B only requires a Labor Condition Application (LCA) which is basically an agreement to pay the prevailing wage and an assertion that there's not an ongoing labor dispute (strike, lockout) ongoing at the proposed location of hire.

From what I've seen is there is a clause that says some employers have to try to recruit U.S. workers when seeking H-1B employees.

However, from what I understood, it only applies employers who have been designated H-1B dependent (something like 15% of their workforce is H-1B) or something like that, or were identified abusers of the program. And even then, there is a salary limit, i.e. if you are paying over $X (which I am assuming facebook is), even if you're workforce is a high enough proportion H-1B you would be dependent, you are still exempt.

Re: Facebook settles federal lawsuit over allegations it favored foreign applicants

#67

Post by tapatio »

justapassenger wrote: post #62
jaywalk wrote: post #3

Up to $14.25 million in fines and restitution for defrauding the H-1B program and screwing over US citizens. Facebook won't even blink an eye at that amount. How about barring them from the H-1B program for 5 years? I think that would be a great start.

FAANGs are always hiring. Any US citizen, who's qualified, can get a job there at any point in time.

"who's qualified"

I suspect the qualifications are different depending on your citizenship.

Re: Facebook settles federal lawsuit over allegations it favored foreign applicants

#68

Post by joshuamorton »

tapatio wrote: post #67
justapassenger wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

FAANGs are always hiring. Any US citizen, who's qualified, can get a job there at any point in time.

"who's qualified" I suspect the qualifications are different depending on your citizenship.

Why would this be? Citizens and residents get the same pay and benefits. If anything, employing a noncitizen is more work because you have to manage the whole immigration process.

What's in it for the company?

Re: Facebook settles federal lawsuit over allegations it favored foreign applicants

#69

Post by laurencerowe »

1cvmask wrote: post #41

From the article: The government said Facebook intentionally created a hiring system in which it denied qualified U.S. workers a fair opportunity to learn about and apply for jobs that it instead sought to channel to temporary visa holders. - At the scale Facebook operates at and the number of employees they hire it makes a huge material advantage for them to hire cheaper foreigners for the same task. It is rational…

> At the scale Facebook operates at and the number of employees they hire it makes a huge material advantage for them to hire cheaper foreigners for the same task. It is rational behavior. Foreigners are always cheaper for the same task at hand.

In this case though the foreign workers are getting green cards that make it much easier for them to work somewhere else.

> The only way to eliminate foreigners undercutting American salaries is to eliminate the foreign labor supply competition.

Isn't this the 'lump of labor' fallacy? Immigration also creates demand in the countries immigrants move to. The evidence seems to be fairly clear that it doesn't depress wages on average: https://noahpinion.substack.com/p/why-immigration-doesnt-red...

> STEM jobs are the ones foreigners can compete in and depress the salaries of Americans in SV. The jobs that are not at as much risk are the ones that require command of the culture and language and the lay of the land like enterprise sales and marketing functions.

Yet it's these same SV engineering jobs that have seen enormous wage increases over the past decade.

I do think there is potential for restrictive immigration schemes to depress wages by making it hard for people on those schemes to change jobs. That was certainly my experience on a cap-exempt academic H1B where I was ineligible to transfer to a commercial employer as cap-subject H1B employees are allowed to do.

The solution to that is to make sure such immigrants get green cards relatively quickly so they can't be exploited by employers.

Re: Facebook settles federal lawsuit over allegations it favored foreign applicants

#70

Post by NovemberWhiskey »

joshuamorton wrote: post #68
tapatio wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"who's qualified" I suspect the qualifications are different depending on your citizenship.

Why would this be? Citizens and residents get the same pay and benefits. If anything, employing a noncitizen is more work because you have to manage the whole immigration process. What's in it for the company?

It would also be illegal.
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