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Reversal of cognitive decline: A novel therapeutic program

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

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Re: Reversal of cognitive decline: A novel therapeutic program

#81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it is pretty easy to deny. The CDC breaks out obesity by demographics[1]. White adults have an obesity rate of ~29%. This is the same as other predominantly white/Anglo countries like Canada, Australia, and the United Kingdom[2]. Maybe 29% is staggeringly unhealthy, but it isn't American culture to be that overweight. Being overweight is fairly widespread and not unique to America. Probably it has more to do…

You've linked me a list that shows the US nearly in the top 5% of the world for obesity and claimed that we're not unhealthy. Also the implication that white people are somehow genetically predisposed to obesity is strange, with plenty of countries existing as counterexamples. You've listed the obesity rate, not the rate of people who are overweight. Beyond that, you haven't limited to adults. According to the CDC [1…

I would contend that physical activity is probably not a large determinant of weight, although physical activity is an important determinant of health.

Re: Reversal of cognitive decline: A novel therapeutic program

#82
post #10

Maybe I'm a cynic but it strains credulity that the miracle cure is also a laundry list of fad health trends from the the last decade. Gluten free, intermittent fasting, yoga, melatonin, probiotics, etc etc

If what you're telling me is that eating healthy, getting enough sleep and exercising can halt or reverse Alzheimer's it's not going to exactly shock me. The real fad is how amazingly stupid Americans are about their own health.

"Gluten free, intermittent fasting" are pseudoscience health trends and trying to strawman them as "eating healthy" is disingenuous.

Re: Reversal of cognitive decline: A novel therapeutic program

#83
post #71

Lots of comments dismissing this out of hand because of lack of evidence, but there aren’t any conventional treatments that are very helpful for Alzheimer’s. The lifestyle adjustments suggested in the protocol are largely healthy, not that hard to do, and offer other health benefits. They are also relatively uncommon so it’s not impossible that a broad based adoption of specific habits along with testing for mycotoxi…

> Lots of comments dismissing this out of hand because of lack of evidence, but there aren’t any conventional treatments that are very helpful for Alzheimer’s.

These are harmless until they become harmful. What if we develop a good cure for Alzheimer's in 10 years, this method gets debunked but the method makes many refuse to use the conventional treatment? That isn't a made up scenario, it happens all the time. Announcing that something is a cure without evidence is hurting people.

Re: Reversal of cognitive decline: A novel therapeutic program

#84
There is a long discussion about the metabolic underpinnings of neurological diseases but the paper's reasoning about the underlying mechanism of disease is weak.

For example, the paper stresses that there is a dysfunctional signaling in AD and comes to a conclusion that it is inducted by a metabolic dysfunction. While this is a true statement, the amount of overall cellular damage happening under the conditions of insufficient metabolism goes way beyond that. The patients have not only "bad signalling", but also autoimmune-like response to damaged tissues. The paper fails to discuss that but suggests as a treatment target in "Therapeutic System 1.0".

The suggested treatment, however, contains the crucial elements that should bring the improvement to patients.

This is not a bad paper by all means. It is useful and even enlightening to some degree, but the theoretical part is tiny and not sound.

Regarding the critical article from The Lancet [1], it's full of emotions and nihilism. I.e. it is bad. I mean, really bad.

For example, here are some excerpts from critical article. "high out-of-pocket cost to implement" - bullshit. While the whole protocol may be costly depending on country, the mitochondrial (the most essential part of it) is dirt cheap, like tens-of-dollars per month cheap. Anti-inflammatory part of protocol can be implemented even with Aspirin.

"Readers might not be aware that the three case series evaluating the Bredesen protocol appear in journals considered by some to be predatory open access journals. Predatory open access journals are scientific-sounding publications that hijack the open access model for profit" - come on. The predatory closed-access model, on the other hand, has its own downsides, e.g. slow progress, walled gardens of authority, review rings.

"There are elements of the Bredesen protocol that could be beneficial and are largely free to patients. It is standard of care in dementia clinics to educate patients, without cost, on the lifestyle interventions" - and that's it. No mentions to metabolic corrections other that "lifestyle change". Which is not sufficient by itself. It only works in conjunction with mitochondrial + anti-inflammatory parts.

"When presented with this information, there are people who continue to hold a strong belief in the protocol’s efficacy." - because it is. Rather than loudly criticizing other's work, it is way better to join the ranks and improve the research by covering the missing parts.

"When carefully examined, multiple red flags appear in the scientific studies supporting the Bredesen protocol." - that's true.

"To date, the evidence does not support its claim to prevent and reverse cognitive decline" - oh well, don't get me started. To date, the neurologists try to treat such patients with... antidepressants. And that's it. Most of them do not even know about neuro-metabolical cause and effect connections.

[1] https://sci-hub.se/downloads/2020-04-23/63/10.1016@S1474-442...

Re: Reversal of cognitive decline: A novel therapeutic program

#86

in patient one they list fasting for extended periods of time and also "MCT effects" which refers to the administration of MCT oil. so in other words, this is a very convoluted way of doing what the ketogenic diet does. the fact that the ketogenic diet can reverse alzheimers in part or in full has been well established by Dr. Mary Newport. as well as it can be without support from the mainstream medical establishment…

Your comment is an example of good knowledge without public recognition as it was downvoted. Probably the public goes by keywords like "schizophrenia" and concludes "oh well, that guy is mad I shoulda downvote him for all's good". But I think your comment is good and worthy, as it brings a small bit of data to a metabolic-neurological connection theory.

>ketosis does something to the immune system

Keto utilizes a bit different metabolic pathway compared to the aerobic glycolysis [1, 2]. The reason you observe immune system response when you lower keto and increase hydrocarbons is because glucose metabolic pathway is broken in such patients. Their bodies cannot consume glucose in full and start to starve in ATP, up to the point of tissue damage, all that with excessive lactic acid excretion. When the tissues are damaged, immune system gets activated and attacks them. By doing so, it also affects nearby healthy tissues, leading to wavy but gradual disease progression.

This process is believed to play the crucial role in progression of neurological and cardiovascular disorders.

The part of glucose metabolism that gets often broken in a human is aerobic cellular respiration [2]. It may be an inherited genetical condition or an acquired mitochondrial dysfunction.

By the way, do you happen to have an insulin resistance? If this parameter is not ok, this can be an additional hint. But even if it is ok, the given pathological process may be in place and slowly progress, eventually leading to insulin resistance as well.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glycolysis

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cellular_respiration

Re: Reversal of cognitive decline: A novel therapeutic program

#87
post #61

A thorough debunking of this protocol from The Lancet: https://sci-hub.se/downloads/2020-04-23/63/10.1016@S1474-442... A few quotes: > Despite the certainty inferred by the book’s subtitle, there is no published study that tests or proves the hypothesis that the Bredesen protocol can prevent and reverse cognitive decline. > Readers are informed that participants with subjective cognitive impairment or mild cognitive…

While I appreciate the sci-hub link, the author manuscript can also be found at https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7377549/ which I think should be encouraged over sci-hub. I love sci-hub and understands its necessity but my cursory look through saw now difference in text or tables provided.

> the author manuscript can also be found at https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7377549/ which I think should be encouraged over sci-hub.

Why? Which one has better policies?

Re: Reversal of cognitive decline: A novel therapeutic program

#88
The major issue with this paper and this protocol is that it is not reproducible.

As the protocol is not accessible / published, we cannot determine how the difference in the set of measures between participants were determined and as such no researcher can independently replicate this study.

This is why those licensed diet / lifestyle change are never science: by definition. Even if they actually produce the desired outcome, all the research is produced either by the creator or by researchers that entered a license agreement and thus have conflicting interests and bias.

Re: Reversal of cognitive decline: A novel therapeutic program

#89
post #83
post #71

Lots of comments dismissing this out of hand because of lack of evidence, but there aren’t any conventional treatments that are very helpful for Alzheimer’s. The lifestyle adjustments suggested in the protocol are largely healthy, not that hard to do, and offer other health benefits. They are also relatively uncommon so it’s not impossible that a broad based adoption of specific habits along with testing for mycotoxi…

> Lots of comments dismissing this out of hand because of lack of evidence, but there aren’t any conventional treatments that are very helpful for Alzheimer’s. These are harmless until they become harmful. What if we develop a good cure for Alzheimer's in 10 years, this method gets debunked but the method makes many refuse to use the conventional treatment? That isn't a made up scenario, it happens all the time. Anno…

It would be better if the article described it as a general cognitive decline without a diagnosis of AD. A lot of symptoms we attribute to AD could very well be caused by other factors which are reversible, such as inflammation, lack of sleep, poor diet, metal toxicity, or a deficiency of CoQ-10 or Ubiquitol due to statin use.

Anecdotally, I experienced a rather severe cognitive impairment after statin use, which, when discontinuing the statin was reversed. I believe this could be attributed to mitochondrial damage. Were I an older individual, this might be improperly diagnosed as age-related cognitive decline.

In another example, 60 Minutes ran a story on a group of people who were suffering from late-stage AD. After autopsy, some showed amyloid beta plaques in some cases and the total absence of it in others. This leads me to believe that AD, as it is currently understood, is better classified as a syndrome which may have no single definitive cure.

Re: Reversal of cognitive decline: A novel therapeutic program

#90
post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I come from a family with Alzheimer's running through it like clockwork. I have some uncles who tried to live the right lifestyle. It didn't help. If anything in my observations it made things worse. Though it's a meaningless sample size.

My own mom has it right now. It's a godawful disease but her choices are equally godawful and they are getting monotonically worse with her decline. Her brother got it too and died horribly. Her other brother became a health not late in life and did not succumb to dementia but rather died of natural causes around 90 a happy and content soul. So I guess in both instances here we are both anecdotal single data points.…

Absolutely. In the case of one uncle he was tea total, healthy diet, distance running, skiing up to his 70s when he got Alzheimer's. Declined in 2 years to the point where he couldn't be at home as he was too strong for his wife to handle. Covid proved the end of any attempt to cling on to his past as it was made illegal for family to visit him. He's gone completely now. But I suspect his physical fitness will see him last longer than he should.

My mother going this way now too.

Suspect it will be me one day.

Certainly genetic factors involved.

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