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Vim Anti-Patterns That Cause Beginners To:Quit

paweldu.dev

81–90 of 135 posts

Re: Vim Anti-Patterns That Cause Beginners To:Quit

#81
Vim is like anything in computing. Confusing at first, eventually you have an "ah-ha!" moment, and in time it becomes second nature.

But there are also different personal preferences. I'd say vim is great if you work frequently in a terminal and prefer the keyboard to the mouse. It's not for everyone and that's ok.

Re: Vim Anti-Patterns That Cause Beginners To:Quit

#82
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then don't. Just learn the basics. Learn how to use insert mode, edit some files, ignore anything not directly relevant. Eventually you'll come across a particular use case where opening a full blown IDE doesn't feel worth the effort, so you'll open vim. You'll learn a few shortcuts, because it would be nice to delete an entire line, or just look at the end of the file. What do you know `dd`, and `G` respectively do…

People say things like this, as if other text editors don't have the same functions. The alternative is not "notepad.exe", it's Textpad, VS Code, or IntelliJ IDEA. Delete an entire line: CTRL-Shift-K in VS Code. Or just look at the end of the file: Ctrl-End in most editors. Etc...

Try "Delete until the 3rd closed parenthesis", or "Delete everything within the {} block currently under the cursor". In Vim it's pretty natural, because commands are compositional. It's like you can "talk" with the editor and tell them exactly what you want, rather than just moving around and inserting/removing/selecting characters.

Granted, it's not easy to learn and perhaps not for everyone. I think it takes a certain kind of... disposition, maybe?, to appreciate it.

Re: Vim Anti-Patterns That Cause Beginners To:Quit

#83

There's been a number of "anti-vim, use a real ide(TM)" posts coming into my feed lately and I don't get why. Do people really get buttmad about this? I switched from vscode to vim as I found it to be largely much faster in getting around when I started my new job, some people find the opposite. A ok. Why do people try to force us into these largely closed solutions? ( Mainly it's vscode, which has a real EEE threat)

I've never gone for vi(m), even after roughly 25 years of using Linux now. I'm not trying to force you into anything, certainly not anything closed. I used NEdit until its lack of utf-8 and ancient GUI library started causing trouble. Then I used Slava Pestov's JEdit, which was wonderfully extensible and portable. Now I use vscode, which is just so outrageously well made that even electron and Microsoft can't scare m…

:%s/. We've known since the 70s/ in my opinion/

Re: Vim Anti-Patterns That Cause Beginners To:Quit

#84

There's been a number of "anti-vim, use a real ide(TM)" posts coming into my feed lately and I don't get why. Do people really get buttmad about this? I switched from vscode to vim as I found it to be largely much faster in getting around when I started my new job, some people find the opposite. A ok. Why do people try to force us into these largely closed solutions? ( Mainly it's vscode, which has a real EEE threat)

I've never gone for vi(m), even after roughly 25 years of using Linux now. I'm not trying to force you into anything, certainly not anything closed. I used NEdit until its lack of utf-8 and ancient GUI library started causing trouble. Then I used Slava Pestov's JEdit, which was wonderfully extensible and portable. Now I use vscode, which is just so outrageously well made that even electron and Microsoft can't scare m…

> It's like everyone's zipping around in electric cars, and some people still swear by those gear/radio sticks.

Anecdotally, the vim users are the ones "zipping" around their code. I can't remember a single time thinking it was painful watching a vim user when pair-programming. In contrast, it's often quite painful watching someone slowly point and click around their IDE.

Re: Vim Anti-Patterns That Cause Beginners To:Quit

#86
Something I've always wanted to do is create modal editor keybindings designed to have the easiest learning curve possible for someone coming from CUA keybindings but still off the power of what you get with vim down the road. The idea is that in insert mode ctrl-c, ctrl-v, and so on work the say you'd expect and in normal mode you would just type c or v for the same effect.

Re: Vim Anti-Patterns That Cause Beginners To:Quit

#87

I just don't buy the premise that I will profit from spending a lot of time optimally customizing a text editor to my supposedly very unique and special needs. Seems more like a weird para-work hobby than an actual productivity hack.

I agree. My .vimrc, that I've used for the last ten years or so, is six lines long.

Re: Vim Anti-Patterns That Cause Beginners To:Quit

#88

There's been a number of "anti-vim, use a real ide(TM)" posts coming into my feed lately and I don't get why. Do people really get buttmad about this? I switched from vscode to vim as I found it to be largely much faster in getting around when I started my new job, some people find the opposite. A ok. Why do people try to force us into these largely closed solutions? ( Mainly it's vscode, which has a real EEE threat)

Like most F/OSS, Vim doesn't have a marketing budget and VSCode does.

Re: Vim Anti-Patterns That Cause Beginners To:Quit

#89

There's been a number of "anti-vim, use a real ide(TM)" posts coming into my feed lately and I don't get why. Do people really get buttmad about this? I switched from vscode to vim as I found it to be largely much faster in getting around when I started my new job, some people find the opposite. A ok. Why do people try to force us into these largely closed solutions? ( Mainly it's vscode, which has a real EEE threat)

I've never gone for vi(m), even after roughly 25 years of using Linux now. I'm not trying to force you into anything, certainly not anything closed. I used NEdit until its lack of utf-8 and ancient GUI library started causing trouble. Then I used Slava Pestov's JEdit, which was wonderfully extensible and portable. Now I use vscode, which is just so outrageously well made that even electron and Microsoft can't scare m…

> But modal editing is just a bad idea.

Citation please? I mean, from a personal point of view I'm mostly in agreement with you, but your post reads like a straw man argument with a non apology affixed. "Not trying to force you into anything" followed by "modal editing is just a bad idea" just reads like judgmental noise to me – can it can be backed up with actual research?

Meanwhile vim (and variants) exists and are hugely popular and so to me it seems that by definition modal editing can't be that bad an idea, or such multitudes of people simply wouldn't use these tools and they'd die out. Doesn't this kind of invalidate your argument?

I'm a staunch Sublime Text supporter myself, having paid license fees since 2011-2012 sometime. I've dabbled with vim and friends but never really "got it" – yet I don't presume that my inability to see the light means there isn't one to be seen.

Re: Vim Anti-Patterns That Cause Beginners To:Quit

#90
One tool that helped me a lot was learning about :h usr_01.txt.

There are 45 or so of these pages. Reading through some of them was one of the most useful ways to learn vim.

What's weird is very few blogs or articles mention these even existing despite the suggestions for using vimtutor or reviewing the :h command for finding help on specific settings.

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