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TSA’s “See cash, seize cash” policy

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Re: TSA’s “See cash, seize cash” policy

#81

Post by Karishma1234 »

gamblor956 wrote: post #40
aazaa wrote: post #27

> Lyon arrived @RDUAirport & gave his bag to @TSA to be scanned. He says he absolutely knew TSA would see the cash, but said he also knew there is no law limiting the amount of cash one can fly with in the U.S. Here's the real problem. Civil asset forfeiture is an extralegal action. It's outside the legal system, which is why it's nearly impossible to get your money back. It's why the legality of what Lyon was doing…

Civil asset forfeiture is an extralegal action. This is categorically wrong . CAF is outside of the criminal legal system, but is very much part of the civil legal system, and the governments loses CAF cases more often than they win them in CAF cases preceding or not involving related criminal cases. (But conversely, the governments almost always win CAF cases that occur after succesful criminal cases involving drugs…

I think it is very complicated. CAF comes in many forms, Judicial AF and Administrative AF. In many cases you can't even reach the courts as the government attorney needs to allow the case to reach the court.

If it is CBP that confiscates your cash, it is supposed to inform DOJ about it and then you are supposed to reach out to DOJ to get it back. Now despite the law CBP simply refused to inform DOJ, as you have to chase this alphabet soup of agencies. In most cases CBP offers to keep a portion of the cash and wants to return rest of the money as settlement.

CAF is a program that should be completely abolished.

Re: TSA’s “See cash, seize cash” policy

#82

Post by steve_g »

gamblor956 wrote: post #40
aazaa wrote: post #27

> Lyon arrived @RDUAirport & gave his bag to @TSA to be scanned. He says he absolutely knew TSA would see the cash, but said he also knew there is no law limiting the amount of cash one can fly with in the U.S. Here's the real problem. Civil asset forfeiture is an extralegal action. It's outside the legal system, which is why it's nearly impossible to get your money back. It's why the legality of what Lyon was doing…

Civil asset forfeiture is an extralegal action. This is categorically wrong . CAF is outside of the criminal legal system, but is very much part of the civil legal system, and the governments loses CAF cases more often than they win them in CAF cases preceding or not involving related criminal cases. (But conversely, the governments almost always win CAF cases that occur after succesful criminal cases involving drugs…

You're right that it's not extralegal action. But you're wrong that rarity makes it newsworthy. It's newsworthy because it's so obviously unjust and corrupt.

Re: TSA’s “See cash, seize cash” policy

#84

Post by mrguyorama »

vkou wrote: post #35
darthvoldemort wrote: post #28

No one has explained to me how this is still legal. This "law" has persisted until Bush, Obama, Trump and now Biden. Why does no one on both sides of the aisle have the courage to stop this? Can no one mount a legal challenge against this?

> Why does no one on both sides of the aisle have the courage to stop this? Because the other side of the aisle will crap on you for doing it, and why burn political capital on a minor problem, when you have more pressing issues, like waging a war, digging through fallout of the largest economic disaster since the Great Depression, getting a crappy single-payer healthcare system through, filling three supreme court s…

Constituents ABSOLUTELY care about these things and other very important issues.

The problem is, nobody cares about these things MORE than "stopping abortion", "muh guns", "fuck taxes", "status quo" that most incumbents scream about. We have a two party system that discourages caring about anything.

Re: TSA’s “See cash, seize cash” policy

#85

Post by robbedpeter »

willcipriano wrote: post #43
darthvoldemort wrote: post #28

No one has explained to me how this is still legal. This "law" has persisted until Bush, Obama, Trump and now Biden. Why does no one on both sides of the aisle have the courage to stop this? Can no one mount a legal challenge against this?

The elderly men and women who run the country want it that way. After a few decades of the same people in office year after year, what other explanation holds water?

It's time for guillotines, or to make it more American, "Freedom Choppers."

Things have gone too far, by all appearances, for the self corrective constitutional mechanisms to repair the situation.

Otherwise, welcome to the new normal. Enjoy your cake.

Re: TSA’s “See cash, seize cash” policy

#87

Post by gamblor956 »

aazaa wrote: post #55
gamblor956 wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Civil asset forfeiture is an extralegal action. This is categorically wrong . CAF is outside of the criminal legal system, but is very much part of the civil legal system, and the governments loses CAF cases more often than they win them in CAF cases preceding or not involving related criminal cases. (But conversely, the governments almost always win CAF cases that occur after succesful criminal cases involving drugs…

> CAF cases make the news when the victim doesn't get their money back in a timely fashion, for the same reason that fires and earthquakes do: because that's not the normal state of things. Got a source for that?

That's its normal for the victims to get their money back without much of a hassle?

No, because people showing the cops they have a legitimate reason to have the money and getting it back isn't news, it's just how the process normally works. (And note, this is my professional experience from when I was a public defender, which included helping clients recover assets seized pursuant to CAF claims.)

It's like how there aren't any news articles about how most Tesla owners don't have problems with their car driving into obstacles every day. Normal isn't news.

I agree that it sucks that someone has to prove they have a legitimate reason to have their own money (in cash), but that's the way the laws are currently written, and they were written that way because their intended use was against organized crime. Most of the abuse of CAF laws can be addressed by eliminating the incentives for LEAs to seize the money (namely, that it currently goes toward their budgets), since prior to that incentive CAF laws were rarely used except in organized crime cases.

Re: TSA’s “See cash, seize cash” policy

#88

Post by dredmorbius »

mountainb wrote: post #73
gamblor956 wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Civil asset forfeiture is an extralegal action. This is categorically wrong . CAF is outside of the criminal legal system, but is very much part of the civil legal system, and the governments loses CAF cases more often than they win them in CAF cases preceding or not involving related criminal cases. (But conversely, the governments almost always win CAF cases that occur after succesful criminal cases involving drugs…

They downvoted you because you speak the truth.

The comment is in part correct and in part incorrect. As is the comment it responds to.

Please don't comment about the voting on comments. It never does any good, and it makes boring reading.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: TSA’s “See cash, seize cash” policy

#89

Post by Strom »

drenvuk wrote: post #65

At this point, is it worth it to turn it into a criminal case where you fight them for the cash? They're trying to keep the cash inside of civil rules. what happens if you physically refuse to let them have your items? Because they're yours and you believe they're attempting to steal from you?

Probably a really fast way to get yourself added to the no-fly list.

Re: TSA’s “See cash, seize cash” policy

#90

Post by lowbloodsugar »

"Flying with cash is legal".

No, it clearly isn't. The law says that a government employee can take your money as long as they write some words on a bit of paper, and if any of that money ever came in to contact with any drug (which are legal in many states), or for many other reasons, then they can keep it forever.

Claiming it is legal is just a way to get more clients.

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