Bitcoin's growing e-waste problem • Hacker News Board

Re: Bitcoin's growing e-waste problem

#81

Post by lottin » Fri, Sep 17, 2021, 2:04 PM UTC

mcjshciejebcu wrote: post #61

lottin wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Resource intensity refers to resource use per unit of output [1] not resource use in absolute terms, which is a meaningless statistic. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_intensity

Right, and I haven't seen estimates for the resource intensity of traditional finance. (We do have good estimates of the total volume of traditional finance, so an estimate of the total resource usage of traditional finance would be just as good as resource intensity)

I don't know how one goes about measuring resource usage, to be honest. I suppose you can make an inventory of all the resources that have been used by a particular industry over a period of time, but this isn't a single number that can be used to compare the resource intensities of different industries.

Re: Bitcoin's growing e-waste problem

#82

Post by nowahe » Fri, Sep 17, 2021, 2:06 PM UTC

helsinkiandrew wrote: post #66

whywhywhywhy wrote: post #19

Completely pales next to something as egregious as disposable tech that sells in the millions and only has a lifespan of 2 years tops like AirPods. They will still be washing up on beaches 100 years after every single person involved in their design has passed. Whole electronics industry needs to take this stuff more seriously, we need more replaceable batteries and storage, right to repair on a global level and laws…

I've never understood why people complain so much about the environmental impact of AirPods. I mean it would be great if they were rechargeable and recyclable etc - but they weigh 4g - about 1/50 of a pair of headphones. If the average person uses them for 2 years they'll be a drop in the ocean to the tens or hundreds of kilos of plastic and other objects they don't recycle fully in that time.

For me, it's not the plastic casing or even the battery that seems the biggest waste, but their ICs.

It's not that it's polluting the environment that much, more that it's wasteful and creates a unnecessary demand in IC production when they are thrown away in perfect working order.

Re: Bitcoin's growing e-waste problem

#83

Post by jacknews » Fri, Sep 17, 2021, 2:06 PM UTC

"The soaring demand for mining hardware may disrupt global semiconductor supply chains."

May? Have you seen graphic card prices lately? Even really old cards are selling for multiples of what they were a year or so ago.

Re: Bitcoin's growing e-waste problem

#84

Post by yawaworht1978 » Fri, Sep 17, 2021, 2:07 PM UTC

tiluha wrote: post #53

yawaworht1978 wrote: post #25

One bullet point says: "On average Bitcoin generates 272 g of e-waste per transaction processed on the blockchain." So transactions on exchanges are less wasteful? A deposit from wallet to exchange generates the same pollution? Or is it "only" mined transactions? Does the transaction size matter?

Transactions do not matter at all. The energy is used to mine blocks. The same energy is used whether the blocks contain transactions or are empty

Ok so there's no value for a transaction, but rather for a block. However,many miners compete for a block, is this accounted for or is the number an average for the winning miner?

Re: Bitcoin's growing e-waste problem

#85

Post by yjftsjthsd-h » Fri, Sep 17, 2021, 2:08 PM UTC

politician wrote: post #79

araio wrote: post #33

The Industrial Revolution and its consequences have been a disaster for the human race. /sarcasm

This downvoted post by this green user is far more relevant and insightful than these crypto hit pieces.

It really isn't; neither has said anything about the cost/benefit ratio.

Re: Bitcoin's growing e-waste problem

#86

Post by Aunche » Fri, Sep 17, 2021, 2:08 PM UTC

ARandumGuy wrote: post #63

CubsFan1060 wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's true. But that's everyone. I've yet to meet a single person who is willing to make the personal sacrifices needed to actually help the world. You get a bunch of normal people (i.e. 'peasants' if you wish) sitting around talking about how to save the environment while eating fruit grown in a faraway land and trucked to them in a refrigerated truck. Everyone wants to say the solution is that other people should…

You're absolutely right. I'll make a big personal sacrifice and close down my oil company. Everyone has to do their part, right? In seriousness, carbon emissions are overwhelmingly emitted from large corporations and state level actors (like the military). Which isn't to say that people shouldn't do what they can to reduce their own carbon footprint, but the world won't be saved if everyone buys local and starts biki…

We don't have oil companies because shareholders like to pollute for fun. We have them to power refrigated trucks so that people can join enjoy seasonal grapes 365 days a year anywhere in the US. If an oil company gets shut down and people are unable to accept the quality of life decrease that comes with it, then they'll vote to open it back up again.

Re: Bitcoin's growing e-waste problem

#87

Post by only_as_i_fall » Fri, Sep 17, 2021, 2:10 PM UTC

CubsFan1060 wrote: post #20

bobthechef wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh you mean like those people who fly around in private jets while admonishing people for inter alia flying on commercial airliners too much? (Remember: you're just a peasant. Money elevates you into a new ontic reality where the normal moral principles don't apply.)

That's true. But that's everyone. I've yet to meet a single person who is willing to make the personal sacrifices needed to actually help the world. You get a bunch of normal people (i.e. 'peasants' if you wish) sitting around talking about how to save the environment while eating fruit grown in a faraway land and trucked to them in a refrigerated truck. Everyone wants to say the solution is that other people should…

We just need to align incentives. If externalities were factored into the cost of imported fruits for example, it wouldn't even be a problem. As it stands do you even know what the relative carbon cost of growing or importing an apple vs a watermelon is in your area? Do you know how to tell if a fruit is grown locally or not while standing at the supermarket? Do you think the average person can reasonably be expected to make those judgements?

Re: Bitcoin's growing e-waste problem

#88

Post by woudsma » Fri, Sep 17, 2021, 2:12 PM UTC

spdegabrielle wrote: post #5

We don’t deserve this beautiful planet.

Nature doesn't care, life will continue to exist. Humans deserve nothing, we're only given a slice of time. Life on earth is both beautiful and merciless. We're involuntary actors in a fractal universe.

I do hope that we can develop effective methods to combat climate change so that we can enjoy clean water and a roof above our heads for a bit longer. It would be a shame if our civilisation disappears without a trace, lost forever to entropy. It would be nice to leave something behind, even though our existence is probably less meaningful than we tell ourselves.

I'm not unhappy, I feel blessed for being here and now. The only thing I'm fed up with is people blatantly lying, without repercussions. Big corporations have fucked up the climate by lying and they want me, the average citizen, to feel guilty of my carbon footprint.

We don't deserve these lies.

Re: Bitcoin's growing e-waste problem

#89

Post by HenryKissinger » Fri, Sep 17, 2021, 2:12 PM UTC

nk1tz wrote: post #69

hypertele-Xii wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As right as you are, that's besides the point. Bitcoin is waste. Pointing at other, more wasteful sources, is besides the point. Abolish both!

The beautiful thing about Bitcoin is that is it a pure, global, free market writ large. There is absolutely nothing you can do to prevent individuals from choosing to participate in it. Therefore the correct retort to someone like you is to tell you to "cry harder".

> There is absolutely nothing you can do to prevent individuals from choosing to participate in it.

Governments in authoritarian countries have shut down bitcoin mining operations and arrested people.

Re: Bitcoin's growing e-waste problem

#90

Post by adrianN » Fri, Sep 17, 2021, 2:14 PM UTC

nk1tz wrote: post #69

hypertele-Xii wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As right as you are, that's besides the point. Bitcoin is waste. Pointing at other, more wasteful sources, is besides the point. Abolish both!

The beautiful thing about Bitcoin is that is it a pure, global, free market writ large. There is absolutely nothing you can do to prevent individuals from choosing to participate in it. Therefore the correct retort to someone like you is to tell you to "cry harder".

I can easily think of a number of measures that would make it much harder to participate in the bitcoin market that governments could implement without much trouble.