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How The Hell Is This My Fault?

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Re: How The Hell Is This My Fault?

#81

Post by babebridou »

chrischen wrote: post #59
OoTheNigerian wrote: post #41

This is my little 2 cents on this whole fiasco that seems not to go away. All this would not have come to this if Airbnb guys asked themselves a simple question. How would I handle this if this happened to my sister of wife. The main problem is Airbnb had about a month to fix this before it became 'viral'. It was only the post by TC that made me realise this issue was about a month ago (30 days!). As a fan of Airbnb,…

So how would they help this person? Reimburse her? AirBnb is technically not liable for those damages right? So how much do they give her? If it's too little it might be insulting. Too much and people would still complain about irreparable emotional damage. They said they're trying to help catch the perpetrator right? In my eyes that's all they really can do and the only thing that matters. The damages are primarily…

I believe the answer to the question "what can AirBnb do?" is really only somewhere deep within the subconsciousness of the victim, and can't be found in a book, nor on an internet forum. Just move your butt and go ask her in person what she needs. Chances are, the first things the victim needs is in the likes of a roof and some emotional council - a cup of coffee, a discussion, a phone number and maybe a few hundred bucks for immediate expenses can help pave the way for the next steps, which are damage assessment and recovery.

It's cheap, considerate and probably much more effective than a simple "sorry" press release. And it has nothing, nothing to do with legal responsibility/liability at this point. When someone is distressed enough to ask specifically for my help, it's the kind of things I'd eagerly do, whether it's my fault or not.

Re: How The Hell Is This My Fault?

#83

Post by lwhi »

AlexMuir wrote: post #69
WordSkill wrote: post #48

You know, I am no cheerleader for Michael Arrington, we've certainly banged heads a few times in comment threads (it's a fun way to spend an evening) but what Paul Graham is doing here is pretty cynical: Once it became clear yesterday that the empathically-challenged kids in charge at Airbnb had no clue of how to manage the problem, and that the company was hemorrhaging tens of millions in notional value every time B…

... attempts made, incredibly, OVER THE PHONE! Nothing incredible there - had these attempts been made in writing/email then there would be no arguing about what was/was not said. Lesson: Do your shady dealing in person. Failing that, do it with an unscheduled phone call.

I think the point is, they should have been made in person.

Re: How The Hell Is This My Fault?

#84

Post by ntoshev »

redthrowaway wrote: post #31

Sorry PG, but you have a steep hill to climb if you want to defend aribnb. The crux of your (and their) problem is this: Why, if, as you say, airbnb was being as helpful as possible from the get-go, did the victim write that second post? That's it. You cannot have a claim to credibility until you answer that question. Even if that answer is, "she was paid off", the existence of her second blog post puts the lie to ai…

> Why, if, as you say, airbnb was being as helpful as possible from the get-go, did the victim write that second post?

Speculation:

Airbnb offered money and support if she agreed not to sue them and not to feed the press the negative story about the service. She refuses to commit to this, they refuse to pay her without it. None of the two parties wants to be transparent about this part of communication. Technically, no one lied.

Re: How The Hell Is This My Fault?

#85

Post by cookiecaper »

blub wrote: post #75
dollarsigns wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You would have a factual point if AirBnB prominently displays on relevant pages "We assume you are not stupid enough to rent out your primary residence. Make sure you don't since we are NOT in the insurance business and take NO responsibility for any damages".

This is the kind of situation that leads to 'Keep away from fire' labels being added to t-shirts. To me renting your home to a stranger and then failing to check up on them for an entire week is incredibly naive. 10 year old naive. I don't care if airbnb said that they would provide 100% insurance, I would still not do this, it is simply against how I know the world works. And don't tell me about the 'good human bein…

Your post is a bit cynical. Most people are good in most interpersonal matters. This doesn't mean that you should take the gamble, however, on something as personal and important as your primary residence. We should recognize that while most people will not trash your home if you let them stay there without any supervision for a whole week, some people will. I don't know the exact proportion, but even if the chance is small, you may want to think carefully about whether you want to take that chance.

It's important to have a belief that most people are not looking to screw up your life specifically. It's also important to not be so naive that you take dangerous gambles, like the ones made in EJ's story. Better safe than sorry.

There's an important equilibrium to be struck here.

Re: How The Hell Is This My Fault?

#86

Post by orionlogic »

Sometime ago i watched a video, a panel directed by Arrington and said to myself "how could PG like this guy"(i see the Arrington way) because PG said this several times. TC really supportive and give good reviews for Ycom startups so its normal to say that i think.

But for this event TC is a bit prolonging the situation. Why not talking millions of happy transactions instead of a unlucky bad one? In 2011 bad news still sells.

Re: How The Hell Is This My Fault?

#87

Post by babebridou »

bugsy wrote: post #50
todayiamme wrote: post #30

This might seem stupid, but given the line of events if I was AirBNB's founders I would do this; offer EJ my place to stay, and cook a simple meal for her. That's it. The shortfall of AirBNB over here is that they might care, but they aren't coming across as someone caring, and a little bit of empathy coupled with a genuine act of kindness will go a long way over here.

I agree with you that is a smart approach. I think the reason they don't do anything to really fix it rather than lip service and lawyer wrangling and dirty PR tricks is they are afraid of setting a precedent. However, they should have thought that through a bit more. They are saying they've had a million rentals or some such with no incident. If that is true, covering someone's damage for the 1 in a million case sho…

The thing is, there's no reason why it should cost 10k bucks in the first place. Okay, well, unless there are travel costs included.

Fact is, before anything else, this is a personal matter, so do it as a person - ideally on your spare time (if you ever can make some) with your personal funds if you can - everyone will accept a founder doing this, it will not engage any responsibility/liability whatsoever, it will not establish any precedent, and it will change the reception radically, for both the victim, the company and the public.

This is a person offering another person to meet, talk aaaaaand 3 years from now we have "Beds & Breaks" hitting the theatres, a movie loosely based on real facts, starring...

Re: How The Hell Is This My Fault?

#88

Post by badclient »

Arrington nails it. It's the same thing I wrote yesterday in a comment: Airbnb wants to call out the victim but are holding back whether it is for legal or other reasons.

I can understand them. It's hard to just sit idle when someone irrationally attacks you. At the same time, if you have a customer-business relationship, airing the customer's dirty laundry may be strategicay bad no matter how wrong she is. On the other hand, the customer can write piles and piles of questionable content.

Here's what I'd love: for EJ to post the ordinal emails or to show them to techcrunch or arstechnica for an independent take on the situation. At the moment TC is just a megaphone for both parties. May be this can investigate this at the root with original communication between EJ and airbnb, assuming ej agrees to it. And if she doesn't, I would be as suspicious of her as I may be airbnb having read her posts.

Re: How The Hell Is This My Fault?

#90

Post by cageface »

rweba wrote: post #77

This might now end up affecting not only Airbnb but also the image of Ycombinator and pg. Also the important issue here is not just the (terrible) handling of this specific incident by Airbnb but the fact that it puts into question their entire business model: Is it really smart to rent out your personal residence to a complete stranger? Does the potential benefit($$$) outweigh the significant risks(being completely…

I think the crucial context is even larger than that. There's a lot of anxiety in the tech community about the recent valuations of several startups. First there was the revelation that a lot of Groupon's reported "profits" are products of clever accounting. Then Color implodes after a ridiculously disproportionate funding round. And now AirBNB, the poster child of internet disintermediation of old, hidebound industries, is caught totally unprepared for a business model threatening crisis that everyone should have seen coming.

I suspect I'm not the only one that thinks that there's a lot of willful ignorance underlying this boom we're all enjoying.

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