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New browser signal could make cookie banners obsolete

dataprotectioncontrol.org

81–90 of 269 posts

Re: New browser signal could make cookie banners obsolete

#81
post #60
post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is time for the governments to take control back and start regulating BigTech: you can not easily opt-out from any data gathering from Google, Microsoft, Apple, Facebook, ... If you try it and turn it off on mobile phone and desktop you will constantly have issues and be flooded with messages like "turn on location services", etc. Yesterday I learned that my private calendar on my phone was replicated to Google Ca…

How is this possible? Probably forgot you gave consent to Google calendar?

Be sure that I didn't give any consent...

Re: New browser signal could make cookie banners obsolete

#82
post #24

The most frustrating thing about these cookie banners (more like cookie lightboxes) is that almost none of them are compliant with the rules. Unfortunately I don't have time to find the source right now, but I'm pretty sure I've read official EU guidance docs clearly stating that many "dark patterns" are simply illegal. For example making the "Accept all cookies" button require less effort than only accepting necessa…

Instead of permitting sites to request consent of the user directly, they should be required to request consent via an official EU site. It could work like an authorisation redirect flow. This would standardise the consent UI, and prevent sites from implementing dark patterns.

Re: New browser signal could make cookie banners obsolete

#83
post #46
post #24

The most frustrating thing about these cookie banners (more like cookie lightboxes) is that almost none of them are compliant with the rules. Unfortunately I don't have time to find the source right now, but I'm pretty sure I've read official EU guidance docs clearly stating that many "dark patterns" are simply illegal. For example making the "Accept all cookies" button require less effort than only accepting necessa…

I have been building some sites where I have explicitly tried to remove or avoid cookies completely. It is really tricky as any third party script or embed can set cookies, which may be retained depending on browser version. We end up using generic cookie prompts just in case to appease corporate compliance even when nothing is usually set on the page. And the http nature of cookies make automating things much more d…

Why avoid cookies entirely? You don't need a cookie banner for cookies essential to the functioning of your site.

Re: New browser signal could make cookie banners obsolete

#84
post #28
post #8

Why do they still think we want tracking cookies ? The ad industry should prepare for a future with no tracking instead of trying to survive with ever shadier tricks, IMO. This won't work: - browsers other than Chrome will say "no tracking" by default, tracking companies won't like that - websites will ignore this, this will be known and people will be upset even more - more javascript when we want less

When working in that industry, the cope is thinking people are ok with it, because it’s the “price” of free web content, and consumers are choosing it over anything with a paywall. I hope free software micropayments payperview can be part of the web! Maybe with GNU Taler or Offset by Freedomlayer[0] [0] https://www.offsetcredit.org/

I agree. Wouldn’t we all love to go back to the old old internet, where people did things a) because they wanted to, or b) because you paid them to. Both of these things make sense and are how the world has worked for a long, long time. This vague, nebulous money from ads and tracking has all the wrong incentives. It’s not “make the best hammer” anymore, it’s “make an addictive hammer that you’ll never want to leave your hand”. TV has and had the same problem to a smaller extent, and sports are infected with it too

I honestly think there’s a good case to be made for banning advertising entirely, and replacing it with a societal stipend for art and media, or at least restricting it to specific places. The back of newspapers, for example.

I’m sure there are plenty of problems with and arguments against the idea, but it’s definitely worth discussing

Re: New browser signal could make cookie banners obsolete

#85
post #7

Reminder that we've already had a spec for it. In the 90s! And it even has been implemented in the Internet Explorer: https://www.w3.org/P3P/ It did absolutely nothing for privacy. Google has been sending bogus P3P headers that broke IE's implementation and allowed all cookies. Adtech companies don't want users to have an easy opt-out. They didn't want P3P. They didn't want DNT. They will not want this new spec, unle…

[deleted]

Re: New browser signal could make cookie banners obsolete

#86
post #24

The most frustrating thing about these cookie banners (more like cookie lightboxes) is that almost none of them are compliant with the rules. Unfortunately I don't have time to find the source right now, but I'm pretty sure I've read official EU guidance docs clearly stating that many "dark patterns" are simply illegal. For example making the "Accept all cookies" button require less effort than only accepting necessa…

> For example making the "Accept all cookies" button require less effort than only accepting necessary cookies, which almost every page does. Like those that make you uncheck 10 or 20 entries one by one.

Or hundreds/thousands like Verizon Media/Oath & friends.

Re: New browser signal could make cookie banners obsolete

#87
post #8

Why do they still think we want tracking cookies ? The ad industry should prepare for a future with no tracking instead of trying to survive with ever shadier tricks, IMO. This won't work: - browsers other than Chrome will say "no tracking" by default, tracking companies won't like that - websites will ignore this, this will be known and people will be upset even more - more javascript when we want less

> Why do they still think we want tracking cookies? Some people do. I would like to see relevant ads (of good special offers especially) if somebody could guarantee the ads are going to be humble and unintrusive), the goods advertised are of high quality and no-scam, the information they get from tracking can not be seen by any 3rd party (including legal authorities) and used for any purpose other than good recommend…

I’m sure you’re right that a small minority doesn’t mind being tracked and provided personalised ads, but there are other problems too. Advertising brings poor incentives for businesses, even worse than usual. Engagement is king, and product satisfaction is hardly relevant

Re: New browser signal could make cookie banners obsolete

#88

I've done some basic reading on GDPR but can't honestly say I have it completely figured out. Can someone help me out with a use case that I come across frequently? Selling tracking data to third parties is the kind of thing noone wants to actually opt in to, and what I imagine GDPR partially tries to combat. (among other things) What about site statistics keeping? If say a newspaper collects statistics about visitor…

The most important concept of GDPR is "Personal Identifiable Information", or PII: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_data

You can collect statistics all you want if you anonymize data such as IP addresses. But you can't collect and store PII (or even aggregate data that can be used to identify a certain user, aka fingerprinting) without consent, or without having a legitimate reason.

By legitimate reason I mean that you can freely collect information that is strictly necessary for performing tasks expected by customers. For example, you don't need explicit consent to collect a customer's address for delivering a package via Post. You can also have a cookie for login without requiring "cookie banner". However, you can't repurpose data you collected legitimately for other purposes, such as sending spam.

(Please notice that legitimate reasons don't include anything marketing-related, spam, selling to third parties. "Legitimate interest" in GDPR means the legitimate interest of the customer, not of the business)

About fingerprinting, if it can be used to identify single users, it becomes PII. This means fingerprinting also falls into GDPR.

Re: New browser signal could make cookie banners obsolete

#89
post #60
post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is time for the governments to take control back and start regulating BigTech: you can not easily opt-out from any data gathering from Google, Microsoft, Apple, Facebook, ... If you try it and turn it off on mobile phone and desktop you will constantly have issues and be flooded with messages like "turn on location services", etc. Yesterday I learned that my private calendar on my phone was replicated to Google Ca…

How is this possible? Probably forgot you gave consent to Google calendar?

Recent Android phones sync a ton of stuff automatically - which I suppose you agree to by signing in with a Google account, but that's also typically required. I know this because on the last two Android phones I purchased, a set of old outdated contacts from my Google account were automatically synced to the phone as soon as I logged in, which I was required to do to begin using the device.

Believe me, I would have opted out of this had I been prompted to do so during setup.

Re: New browser signal could make cookie banners obsolete

#90
A bit too late, but still great for users and for developers. Not so much for cookie banner services, but that's their own fault for providing cookie banners that cover half or more of screen, have confusing selections or none at all and uses dark patterns to push visitor to "Accept All" cookies. And browsers should ask user for default preference only once, to prevent bothering with useless notifications from each website.
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