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New browser signal could make cookie banners obsolete

dataprotectioncontrol.org

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Re: New browser signal could make cookie banners obsolete

#61

The thing with ideas like this is that it'll all boil down to one thing: opt-in or opt-out. If it's opt-in, hidden inside browsers settings, effectively no-one will use it (e.g. current cookie blocking settings). If it's opt-out everyone will use it (see e.g. Apple's recent "This app is asking to track you across the internet, do you want to allow it?". Question is, why make it complicated with a spec like this. Bett…

If it's opt-in, it's another bit of information to uniquely identify you (like Do-Not-Track is today.)

If it's opt-out and everyone will use it, ad companies will completely ignore this spec and keep tracking you.

The Internet is entirely in the hands of an advertising company. 90% of Internet users use Chrome and/or Android? Add Google Search and it's probably like 98%. Good luck with changing the status quo.

Re: New browser signal could make cookie banners obsolete

#62
post #24

The most frustrating thing about these cookie banners (more like cookie lightboxes) is that almost none of them are compliant with the rules. Unfortunately I don't have time to find the source right now, but I'm pretty sure I've read official EU guidance docs clearly stating that many "dark patterns" are simply illegal. For example making the "Accept all cookies" button require less effort than only accepting necessa…

But they pretend to be legal. They at least make an attempt to seem kind of legal. And that's what matters.

If you only accept a spec like this there is no way to pretend to be legal other than to accept it anymore. Make custom cookie banners totally illegal. Force the use of this. No dark patterns, no semi-legal trickery. Either you use it and accept it, or you don't. Take out the grey area.

Re: New browser signal could make cookie banners obsolete

#63
post #7

Reminder that we've already had a spec for it. In the 90s! And it even has been implemented in the Internet Explorer: https://www.w3.org/P3P/ It did absolutely nothing for privacy. Google has been sending bogus P3P headers that broke IE's implementation and allowed all cookies. Adtech companies don't want users to have an easy opt-out. They didn't want P3P. They didn't want DNT. They will not want this new spec, unle…

"the banners are malicious compliance." I agree. But I don't think it's because adtech want you to think privacy is shit; I think it's because by compelling you to click, they can run Javascript in the context of a user gesture. I want a plugin that automatically says "OK" to cookie banners. My browser already blocks 3rd-party cookies. It only allows session cookies. Cookie banners are like fire-hydrant CAPTCHAs - th…

“ I want a plugin that automatically says "OK" to cookie banners.”

Try “I don’t care about cookies” :)

https://www.i-dont-care-about-cookies.eu/

Re: New browser signal could make cookie banners obsolete

#64
post #24

The most frustrating thing about these cookie banners (more like cookie lightboxes) is that almost none of them are compliant with the rules. Unfortunately I don't have time to find the source right now, but I'm pretty sure I've read official EU guidance docs clearly stating that many "dark patterns" are simply illegal. For example making the "Accept all cookies" button require less effort than only accepting necessa…

But they pretend to be legal. They at least make an attempt to seem kind of legal. And that's what matters. If you only accept a spec like this there is no way to pretend to be legal other than to accept it anymore. Make custom cookie banners totally illegal. Force the use of this. No dark patterns, no semi-legal trickery. Either you use it and accept it, or you don't. Take out the grey area.

That's my point: that if you create a standard like this but don't enforce it (which is not the same thing as its legality) it won't matter. What is the consequence going to be of ignoring it? Will it be enough to actually create an incentive more attractive than breaking the law?

Re: New browser signal could make cookie banners obsolete

#65
I've done some basic reading on GDPR but can't honestly say I have it completely figured out. Can someone help me out with a use case that I come across frequently? Selling tracking data to third parties is the kind of thing noone wants to actually opt in to, and what I imagine GDPR partially tries to combat. (among other things)

What about site statistics keeping? If say a newspaper collects statistics about visitors to their articles, and does browser/user tracking by implementing cookies, for __internal__ use, rather than selling data to third parties. Is a cookie banner still neccesary for that kind of consent?

Personally, I don't care if my IP appears on any website log that I have visited, or if a unique cookie ID becomes present on the site until I clear my cookies. If i cared about my IP being tracked, or cookie IDs like that, I would browse using a VPN and "Private mode" in browser. What I do care about is the complex browser fingerprinting that keeps track of (essentially) my entire browser history, externally, with everything from my google searches, youtube videos, online purchases and website visits being visible in some kind of giant aggregate form.

Basically compare it to being videotaped when entering a store. Yeah sure, I might be a bit irked by the camera but I don't care too much. Comparing that to putting a camera on every street corner, and using facial recognition to generate a day by day pattern of all my visits to all stores the last 30 years, and I'm not a happy camper any more.

I would even go as far as cookie banners for the above tracking scenario, where you are tracked completely, should be illegal. That kind of "consent" can't even be gained by just clicking a on a website, it would require a valid ID and signature at least.

And on the other hand, the "internal store videocamera" taping customers as they enter, perhaps even applying face recognition software to count unique visitors per year to the store, is hardly worth the hassle of a clicking a cookie banner personally. I'm certainly not averse to a position of not wanting to be tracked when entering a store or a webpage though, and if someone has a personal need to not be tracked like that, they should be able to apply basic non consent based tools to avoid being tracked. Like wearing sunglasses and a cap when entering the store, or browsing using a VPN.

Re: New browser signal could make cookie banners obsolete

#66
post #24

The most frustrating thing about these cookie banners (more like cookie lightboxes) is that almost none of them are compliant with the rules. Unfortunately I don't have time to find the source right now, but I'm pretty sure I've read official EU guidance docs clearly stating that many "dark patterns" are simply illegal. For example making the "Accept all cookies" button require less effort than only accepting necessa…

At least in France, there's CNIL (Commission Nationale de l'Informatique et des Libertés) that started going after the top non-compliant websites and sending love letters like "you have N days to become compliant".

[1] https://www.cnil.fr/en/home

Re: New browser signal could make cookie banners obsolete

#68
Regulations tend to become pretty stale pretty fast while tech moves on . Maybe users just need to pushback by picking browsers that respect privacy. We would do better by funding better privacy tech and educating consumers then chasing regulations that almost never get it right, bog down the user experience, and generally become a hassle to everyone involved.

Re: New browser signal could make cookie banners obsolete

#69
post #7

Reminder that we've already had a spec for it. In the 90s! And it even has been implemented in the Internet Explorer: https://www.w3.org/P3P/ It did absolutely nothing for privacy. Google has been sending bogus P3P headers that broke IE's implementation and allowed all cookies. Adtech companies don't want users to have an easy opt-out. They didn't want P3P. They didn't want DNT. They will not want this new spec, unle…

As I understand it, the idea would be to make respecting these automatic signal mandatory in an update to the GDPR. See https://techcrunch.com/2021/06/14/europe-needs-to-back-brows... for some more context.

Granted though that enforcement of the existing rules seems to be the biggest problem today.

Re: New browser signal could make cookie banners obsolete

#70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"the banners are malicious compliance." I agree. But I don't think it's because adtech want you to think privacy is shit; I think it's because by compelling you to click, they can run Javascript in the context of a user gesture. I want a plugin that automatically says "OK" to cookie banners. My browser already blocks 3rd-party cookies. It only allows session cookies. Cookie banners are like fire-hydrant CAPTCHAs - th…

“ I want a plugin that automatically says "OK" to cookie banners.” Try “I don’t care about cookies” :) https://www.i-dont-care-about-cookies.eu/

Is this extension trustworthy? It is "recommended" and says GPL3 but there is no link to the source code anywhere.
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