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New York Senate passes Right to Repair bill

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Re: New York Senate passes Right to Repair bill

#81

Post by dntrkv »

andrei_says_ wrote: post #67
rib3ye wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On that note, Rossmann is a curious character. He openly and variously despises Apple’s hardware choices and policies, yet to my memory, that’s his shop works on. Are the economics of repairing Apple products that strong or is the man is a true masochist?

Watch some of his videos. He has a lot of insight about the subpar quality of Apple devices, about the outrageous lies of Apple Genius Bar quoting people thousands of dollars for repairs that take him 5-10 minutes, for apple’s efforts to make the devices non serviceable, withholding schematics, controlling access to replacement parts etc. Here’s a televised CBS report. https://youtu.be/o2_SZ4tfLns He is extremely goo…

I'm not sure that's the best example.

In my mind, it makes sense that Apple won't repair a device that has signs of water damage without replacing all potentially affected parts (the bit about humidity is a discussion all on its own). Water damage can surface in a myriad of ways, and the last thing they want to do is charge a customer for a fix, only for them to come back demanding a refund because their device is broken again.

Rossmann has a small enough operation that he can handle this on a case by case basis. Apple operates at scale, so the fact that they have blanket policies like this makes sense.

Of course the debate changes when Apple makes it so that you can only use them for repairs.

Re: New York Senate passes Right to Repair bill

#82

Post by exporectomy »

TruthSHIFT wrote: post #65
myfavoritedog wrote: post #52

4. Excludes motor vehicle manufacturers, manufacturer of motor vehicle equipment, or motor vehicle dealers and medical devices or a digital electronic product or embedded software found in medical settings. For all the bravado about standing up to powerful interests, this shows you who the most powerful interests are in that space.

So, what is actually included? Isn’t everything electronic now?

Hard to parse all those commas and conjunctions. Are you sure "digital electronic product" isn't related to medical devices?

Re: New York Senate passes Right to Repair bill

#83

Post by JAlexoid »

vikingerik wrote: post #71
myfavoritedog wrote: post #52

4. Excludes motor vehicle manufacturers, manufacturer of motor vehicle equipment, or motor vehicle dealers and medical devices or a digital electronic product or embedded software found in medical settings. For all the bravado about standing up to powerful interests, this shows you who the most powerful interests are in that space.

Let's interpret this the right way: this doesn't mean "we're not going to handle motor vehicles or medical", it means "motor vehicles and medical are out of scope for this measure." They can be handled separately, and that's reasonable given the greater safety concerns of those industries.

Right to repair started out as a demand by farmers to be able to repair their John Deere's.

This "greater safety" concern is nothing but masquerade.

Re: New York Senate passes Right to Repair bill

#84

Post by hutzlibu »

ExtraE wrote: post #44
tachyonbeam wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But this would force your laptop to be a whole 1.8cm thick! Unthinkable!

You joke, but LG makes a Samsung makes a 15.6” laptop that weighs 2.6lbs, which is extremely practical. I’m planning on getting one. I wouldn’t be if it had the bulk and weight of a removable battery.

"weight of a removable battery"

Why would a removable battery be more heavy? More bulky, probably and with more plastic also a bit more heavy. But not much, as the heavy part is not the plastic.

Re: New York Senate passes Right to Repair bill

#85

Post by tachyonbeam »

ExtraE wrote: post #44
tachyonbeam wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But this would force your laptop to be a whole 1.8cm thick! Unthinkable!

You joke, but LG makes a Samsung makes a 15.6” laptop that weighs 2.6lbs, which is extremely practical. I’m planning on getting one. I wouldn’t be if it had the bulk and weight of a removable battery.

Maybe we could build laptop cases out of carbon fiber and get the best of both worlds? Or at least make laptop cases easier to open for servicing, with standard screws and no plastic clamps.

Re: New York Senate passes Right to Repair bill

#86

Post by Causality1 »

fitchjo wrote: post #59
myfavoritedog wrote: post #52

4. Excludes motor vehicle manufacturers, manufacturer of motor vehicle equipment, or motor vehicle dealers and medical devices or a digital electronic product or embedded software found in medical settings. For all the bravado about standing up to powerful interests, this shows you who the most powerful interests are in that space.

Am I being a bit naive to think that this has more to do with public safety? In theory, there is some increased level of regulation/review of the car and medical device manufacturers that limits the risk these repairs aren’t done to an appropriate standard? You can make a trade-off between standard of repair and price for your iPhone that only impacts the device, but cars and medical devices not properly repaired cou…

Would you rather have amateur repairs being done by someone who has access to proper documentation or by someone who does not?

Re: New York Senate passes Right to Repair bill

#87

Post by hutzlibu »

andrei_says_ wrote: post #69
Wowfunhappy wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Non-removable batteries are annoying, but they allow you to make devices which are much more compact, or which have a larger battery at the same size. The battery in e.g. an iPhone 6S takes some work to replace, but it's still quite easy for a repair shop to do, so that seems like a very reasonable trade-off to me.

What about non-removable batteries that are also glued in? With a excessive amount of glue? Making them doubly non-removable?

There is the valid argument, of sealing it in, for water protection.

I am still looking for a new phone, which removable battery.

Re: New York Senate passes Right to Repair bill

#88

Post by hutzlibu »

InvaderFizz wrote: post #47
kgwxd wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Really? Never thought of that, is that a DIY thing or would I need to take it someplace?

Just search for that model laptop battery on Amazon. You'll likely find a slew of Chinese replacement batteries. See if there is a YouTube or iFixit tear down guide, take the bottom cover off, replace battery, put the cover back on.

So ... the DIY is subjective. You don't want to screw up and later have your laptop (and house) on fire.

Re: New York Senate passes Right to Repair bill

#89

Post by Grimm665 »

elliekelly wrote: post #3

Not really related but ifixit really is fantastic. I’ve fixed so many things I had no business being able to fix on my own thanks to their guides and videos. I wish more people would turn to their site before throwing stuff away.

Take their guides with a bit of a grain of salt. Having gone through Apple ACMT training back in 2015, many of the iFixit guides have recommendations or procedures that do not follow official Apple guidelines. In most cases it doesn't matter, but it can come back to bite.

For example there are torque specifications for some of the screws in the trashcan Mac Pro. I doubt getting the torque wrong would cause any issue, and Apple is probably being a bit pedantic. However, iFixit's thermal paste application article specifically recommends spreading thermal paste with your finger[1], which is a TERRIBLE idea and goes directly against Apple repair procedures.

So use common sense when working with iFixit guides, they should not be considered replacements for official Apple repair guides, though they are far better than nothing, which is what Apple provides to the general public :).

[1] https://www.ifixit.com/Guide/How+to+Apply+Thermal+Paste/744#...

Re: New York Senate passes Right to Repair bill

#90

Post by eganist »

joshspankit wrote: post #78
fitchjo wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Am I being a bit naive to think that this has more to do with public safety? In theory, there is some increased level of regulation/review of the car and medical device manufacturers that limits the risk these repairs aren’t done to an appropriate standard? You can make a trade-off between standard of repair and price for your iPhone that only impacts the device, but cars and medical devices not properly repaired cou…

You’ve used a grey argument. Apple themselves have argued that one of the reasons they have to limit repair is for public safety (someone could have a battery explode if they pierce it, for example), whereas we could also argue the other side: that if someone modifies their own medical device and gets hurt because of it that they legally only hurt themselves because they had the right to make that choice. IMO it come…

> that if someone modifies their own medical device and gets hurt because of it that they legally only hurt themselves because they had the right to make that choice.

Well, while this applies to medical devices, worth noting this doesn't apply to cars, for which safety inspections have existed in many states for quite a while.

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