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My experience with sexual harassment in the Scala community

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Re: My experience with sexual harassment in the Scala community

#81

Post by rodgerd »

fishnchips wrote: post #41
api wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't like this court-of-public-opinion stuff much either and the abuse potential is real. At the same time: what else are people going to do? There seems to be no other recourse. Most people let bullies get away with it because even stepping in as a third party means standing up to a bully. It can be scary, but even if there's no real risk it's still a fucking pain in the ass. Who wants to get into a mud slinging…

Contact law enforcement.

Yes, I'm sure they'll treat it with the seriousness that they treat the decades-long ignored pile of rape kits.

Re: My experience with sexual harassment in the Scala community

#82

Post by dmit »

eloff wrote: post #36

> I don’t remember how much I drank. I don’t remember him drinking. But I remember feeling uncomfortable when he made advances on me. I felt being taken advantage of that he had unprotected sex with me when I was intoxicated. Nothing felt right. I remember panicking and crying. I don't want to victim blame here because this guy sounds like a grade A creep and predator. But does a person not have some responsibility h…

> I don't want to victim blame here

And yet

Re: My experience with sexual harassment in the Scala community

#83

Post by colechristensen »

eloff wrote: post #36

> I don’t remember how much I drank. I don’t remember him drinking. But I remember feeling uncomfortable when he made advances on me. I felt being taken advantage of that he had unprotected sex with me when I was intoxicated. Nothing felt right. I remember panicking and crying. I don't want to victim blame here because this guy sounds like a grade A creep and predator. But does a person not have some responsibility h…

It is... complicated, but if a sober person takes advantage of the apparent willingness of a very intoxicated person, they have done something wrong.

In general regardless of your state of mind, you should be deciding if somebody is actually capable of giving consent in their state of mind regardless of how they act.

A drop of alcohol does not remove all ability to give consent but there is a point where it is no longer possible and so you’re left with a situation where there isn’t right and wrong absolutely but a grey area of many degrees... which as a decent person you should always err on the side of caution.

Re: My experience with sexual harassment in the Scala community

#84

Post by fishnchips »

I have no interest in Scala and never heard of Jon Pretty nor his accuser but the accusations are of a criminal nature (either rape or slander) and it feels like as a society we've long developed more reliable tools and systems to deal with such matters.

Re: My experience with sexual harassment in the Scala community

#85

Post by Pfhreak »

the-dude wrote: post #28
Pfhreak wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sex was had while she did not consent, she mentions in the fifth paragraph.

That is not what she says there. She says she felt uncomfortable and taken advantage of.

Being taken advantage of while intoxicated and while there was a significant power imbalance between the two. She was not in a position to give consent there -- being intoxicated, being in a place that was being rented Pretty (and she could risk being out on the street if she refused), having no money and luggage on hand, being the mentee of Pretty (or believing she could be), etc.

She ended up crying and panicking. That generally isn't the outcome of a consensual relationship.

Re: My experience with sexual harassment in the Scala community

#86

Post by domano »

fishnchips wrote: post #41
api wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't like this court-of-public-opinion stuff much either and the abuse potential is real. At the same time: what else are people going to do? There seems to be no other recourse. Most people let bullies get away with it because even stepping in as a third party means standing up to a bully. It can be scary, but even if there's no real risk it's still a fucking pain in the ass. Who wants to get into a mud slinging…

Contact law enforcement.

This seems international though, this is not simple. As a victim doubly so, since you also have to combat your damaged pyche. In the end there needs to be an investigation, but sadly some uproar is needed for something to happen in cases like these.

Re: My experience with sexual harassment in the Scala community

#87

Post by suifbwish »

JPKab wrote: post #27

Jon Pretty sounds like a complete creep and yes, based on this account, a predator. That being said, there is a court and criminal justice system for a reason. While I empathize with the author, and utterly despise the archetype of high-status men who use their status within programming communities as a tool to target women, I find the nature of these kinds of posts to be counterproductive. Therapeutic to the author?…

It’s the modern day equivalent of being accused of witchcraft. You get a trial but good luck getting your reputation back. People are trained not to doubt this sort of thing end assume guilt, then when confronted they rattle off some supposed statistical fact that it’s virtually impossible for the accuser to be lying.

Re: My experience with sexual harassment in the Scala community

#88

Post by fabian2k »

eloff wrote: post #36

> I don’t remember how much I drank. I don’t remember him drinking. But I remember feeling uncomfortable when he made advances on me. I felt being taken advantage of that he had unprotected sex with me when I was intoxicated. Nothing felt right. I remember panicking and crying. I don't want to victim blame here because this guy sounds like a grade A creep and predator. But does a person not have some responsibility h…

A person that is in an incapacitated state is not able to consent, in that situation the burden is entirely on the other person. Just because someone is not able to say no doesn't meant they did consent.

I'm talking about close to blackout drunk, heavily incapacitated, not slightly tipsy.

Re: My experience with sexual harassment in the Scala community

#89

Post by medicineman »

JPKab wrote: post #59
908B64B197 wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> heard from someone in HR that the charges were false, but "optics" were the reason they had to move forward with his termination. Time to name the company.

A massive company that makes overpriced, low-quality athletic products that double as status symbols, which they manufacture overseas (often using child labor) but then sell for massive markups in the US, Europe, etc. They have an extremely aggressive "woke" presence in their advertising, because as long as you care about social justice for your targeted customers, who cares that "people of color" in the developing w…

Nike.

Hell, I'd do anything for a downvote.

Re: My experience with sexual harassment in the Scala community

#90

Post by CoastalCoder »

908B64B197 wrote: post #35
JPKab wrote: post #27

Jon Pretty sounds like a complete creep and yes, based on this account, a predator. That being said, there is a court and criminal justice system for a reason. While I empathize with the author, and utterly despise the archetype of high-status men who use their status within programming communities as a tool to target women, I find the nature of these kinds of posts to be counterproductive. Therapeutic to the author?…

> heard from someone in HR that the charges were false, but "optics" were the reason they had to move forward with his termination. Time to name the company.

IANAL, but if the story is true, would it be reasonable to sue that coworker for defamation/slander and for lost wages?
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