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.NET for Beginners (2020)

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Re: .NET for Beginners (2020)

#81

Post by lostcolony »

mikewarot wrote: post #72
imgabe wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm currently trying to write a windows app and coming from web development (Python/Django and React) it is bewildering. Part of the problem is with web development, complicated as it is, the tutorials at least get you to a complete, working example. The windows tutorials seem to be very piecemeal where you start with a mostly complete app and fill in a couple things, but never get the whole picture. And like in your…

I have the opposite problem. On a PC, you can always store data, the graphics display exactly how you want, the feedback is instant, and you always know the state of things. You don't ever get disconnected from the user, nor have more than one at a time. My favorite platform is Lazarus/Free Pascal. The documentation is a bit sketchy, but the IDE and the applications it outputs seem solid. I'd prefer Delphi, but they…

Wow. I knew Delphi was priced high, but I just went and looked...$1600 + $400 a year every year thereafter.

And they have a community edition...but if you make $5k or more as a consultant, -even if it's not using Delphi-, you can't use it.

Re: .NET for Beginners (2020)

#82

Post by jiggawatts »

imgabe wrote: post #71
manigandham wrote: post #35

.NET definitely has a messy past but someone arriving today probably has the easiest time ever getting started because so much has changed to become a single streamlined product. All these opinions are weighed down by the very history that beginners don't have. The expansive standard library, web/desktop/mobile/gaming output, Visual Studio (Code) IDEs, fantastic in-depth guides and documentation [1], dev evangelists…

I'm currently trying to write a windows app and coming from web development (Python/Django and React) it is bewildering. Part of the problem is with web development, complicated as it is, the tutorials at least get you to a complete, working example. The windows tutorials seem to be very piecemeal where you start with a mostly complete app and fill in a couple things, but never get the whole picture. And like in your…

> Are one or more of them about to be deprecated?

All of them are.

Not officially, of course, but practically speaking all of them are dead-ends.

MAUI is the "new hotness", which means that it'll only become obvious that it is also a dead end in about a year and a half.

I wish I was joking.

Re: .NET for Beginners (2020)

#83

Post by manigandham »

imgabe wrote: post #71
manigandham wrote: post #35

.NET definitely has a messy past but someone arriving today probably has the easiest time ever getting started because so much has changed to become a single streamlined product. All these opinions are weighed down by the very history that beginners don't have. The expansive standard library, web/desktop/mobile/gaming output, Visual Studio (Code) IDEs, fantastic in-depth guides and documentation [1], dev evangelists…

I'm currently trying to write a windows app and coming from web development (Python/Django and React) it is bewildering. Part of the problem is with web development, complicated as it is, the tutorials at least get you to a complete, working example. The windows tutorials seem to be very piecemeal where you start with a mostly complete app and fill in a couple things, but never get the whole picture. And like in your…

Desktop UI is very different from web, and most languages have multiple choices. WPF is the latest Windows-only, Windows Forms is legacy (from Windows XP era), Xamarin is cross-platform. These is in the descriptions on the page, or you can click on the documentation and follow the breadcrumbs to the main topic for the Desktop Guide: https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/dotnet/desktop/?view=netdes...

However you can just use Electron if you want to reuse web UI skills on desktop (although HN hates that). Likewise you can solve the state problem the same as a web backend. Use an external database, or a local database, write to a file, just keep it in memory, or use any of the OS-specific options. I recommend starting with EntityFramework (an ORM) and using the Sqlite provider: https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/ef/core/get-started/overvie...

Re: .NET for Beginners (2020)

#84

Post by manigandham »

turtlebits wrote: post #77
manigandham wrote: post #35

.NET definitely has a messy past but someone arriving today probably has the easiest time ever getting started because so much has changed to become a single streamlined product. All these opinions are weighed down by the very history that beginners don't have. The expansive standard library, web/desktop/mobile/gaming output, Visual Studio (Code) IDEs, fantastic in-depth guides and documentation [1], dev evangelists…

I've tried to get started with F# on Mac twice, once a few months ago, and 18 months before that. Could not get it working. When the official getting started guides don't work, that is a very bad sign. I will be staying away.

What was the error?

Also like the others say, F# on dotnet is like Groovy for the JVM. It's nowhere near the popularity. Any reason you didn't try C# instead?

Re: .NET for Beginners (2020)

#85

Post by cable2600 »

tracker1 wrote: post #36
okareaman wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mono was created by Miguel de Icaza, a Mexican (Now Mexican-American) programmer. Microsoft had nothing to do with it. Novell purchased it. Eventually Microsoft warmed up to it. Miguel de Icaza now works at Microsoft.

Mono was an implementation of the CLI ... the "Design" of the language, and CLI were absolutely designed to be cross-platform.

This is an IDE right here: https://www.monodevelop.com/

Re: .NET for Beginners (2020)

#86

Post by fergie »

Read the whole article nodding my head at all the valid criticisms of .NET, but towards the end I began to wonder: when are the arguments in favour of .NET coming? And finally, at the very end, this paragraph appeared:

" .NET is a great technology for experienced developers who grew up with the platform as it matured, but I'm not sure if I'd still enjoy learning it today as much as I did in 2008. Whilst the complexity allows me to charge great fees to clients for writing software in .NET, I'd probably not recommend it to a friend who wants to learn how to code or I wouldn't use it for building my own startup from the grounds up. "

Is it really the case that the only argument for using .NET is that you can earn a lot of money by working as a .NET consultant? From my own experience I always assumed that it was, but I would love to learn about some actual benefits that .NET has over competing platforms.

Re: .NET for Beginners (2020)

#87

Post by ChicagoDave »

There’s no doubt this a very truthful and in-depth review of .NET, but it leans a bit too negative for my beliefs.

I think if you just start with .NET Core and learn basic console programming, the rest will come easily enough.

Re: .NET for Beginners (2020)

#88

Post by xbar »

manigandham wrote: post #84
turtlebits wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've tried to get started with F# on Mac twice, once a few months ago, and 18 months before that. Could not get it working. When the official getting started guides don't work, that is a very bad sign. I will be staying away.

What was the error? Also like the others say, F# on dotnet is like Groovy for the JVM. It's nowhere near the popularity. Any reason you didn't try C# instead?

It seems like you understand the story for both of them. Any reason why F# is not a valid starting point language on Mac?

Re: .NET for Beginners (2020)

#89

Post by VadimPR »

manigandham wrote: post #35

.NET definitely has a messy past but someone arriving today probably has the easiest time ever getting started because so much has changed to become a single streamlined product. All these opinions are weighed down by the very history that beginners don't have. The expansive standard library, web/desktop/mobile/gaming output, Visual Studio (Code) IDEs, fantastic in-depth guides and documentation [1], dev evangelists…

Gave it a serious go but it still lives inside the Windows + Visual Studio bubble.

Trying to use .NET on Linux with Visual Studio Code is pain: .NET developers expect you to learn APIs through intellisense and don't publish API docs, Windows tutorials assume you're running Visual Studio, and a lot of MS's own API docs are bewildering with .NET jargon that you won't understand.

Re: .NET for Beginners (2020)

#90

Post by andi999 »

jiggawatts wrote: post #82
imgabe wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm currently trying to write a windows app and coming from web development (Python/Django and React) it is bewildering. Part of the problem is with web development, complicated as it is, the tutorials at least get you to a complete, working example. The windows tutorials seem to be very piecemeal where you start with a mostly complete app and fill in a couple things, but never get the whole picture. And like in your…

> Are one or more of them about to be deprecated? All of them are. Not officially , of course, but practically speaking all of them are dead-ends. MAUI is the "new hotness", which means that it'll only become obvious that it is also a dead end in about a year and a half. I wish I was joking.

At least until last year, I think the community used mostly winforms if it is for Windows operating system. MS is not too happy about that.
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