In case you're wondering what it sounds like:
I quite like this album completely created using it: https://professorkliq.bandcamp.com/album/28-days-with-the-op...
Ten years of OP-1
81–90 of 213 posts
Re: Ten years of OP-1
#82Earlier quoted context omitted.
Sorry for the meta-discussion (which I know is against the guidelines), but I'm finding it really hard to respond kindly to your comment, given the overarching tone ("no respect", "hard to swallow", sarcasm about parts, "shitty pricing"). I'd love to engage with you on the merits of pricing for what the market will bear, CoGS including software and craftsmanship, etc, but I am not able. Perhaps that's my failing, but…
If my tone comes off as "acerbic", I guess I'm a little surprised. I love Teenage Engineering (and own a few Pocket Operators too), but I gotta call them out on the pricing issue here. When the price of the OP-1 did start to skyrocket in 2012, Teenage Engineering said absolutely nothing, and then discontinued it in 2013, sending the secondhand market soaring again. Of course, their response is to put it back into pro…
There are schools of (microeconomic) thought that would encourage them to raise prices even further in order to reduce demand to match their supply capability. If the second-hand market prices a good higher than the original seller, that's a very clear signal to increase the price. At least that way the profits end up in the manufacturer's pocket (which they can use to increase volume) instead of a speculator's. That is all to say, their raising prices is ethical, legal, and moral.
You seem to be seeing something nefarious in their discontinuing the OP-1, and then re-continuing it at a higher price. Even absent the above, it makes perfect sense that they could be losing money on a product, and then re-introduce it at a higher price so they stop losing money.
Now, should they have been losing money at the lower price point? You talk a lot about CoGS, but that completely neglects things like design and development time. The OP-1 is, by all accounts, extremely well-designed and built. Economies of scale let companies like Apple pick lower margins because that R&D time is amortized over a huge number of devices manufactured. Boutique operations can't do that.
All that still ignores squishier questions like choosing to keep a price point in order to fund other projects (that may never be built) with increasing margins over time, or hell, I dunno, paying bigger bonuses to employees. Clearly people are willing to pay it, and they're under no obligation to price their goods according to any objective thing at all. Maybe the CEO is a mystic and likes the numerology of the new price better.
Re: Ten years of OP-1
#83Earlier quoted context omitted.
Why do you think the BOM cost should have any relation to the selling price? > You can slice this any way you want, but there's not really an excuse for an all-digital synth to increase in price like that Adjusting to market bearing price seems like a good excuse to me.
Whatever justifies it for you. For every extra dollar they eke out of bougie hipster, they ostracize people like me who would definitely buy one if it was $500 or $600
[deleted]
Re: Ten years of OP-1
#84Earlier quoted context omitted.
Why do you think the BOM cost should have any relation to the selling price? > You can slice this any way you want, but there's not really an excuse for an all-digital synth to increase in price like that Adjusting to market bearing price seems like a good excuse to me.
Whatever justifies it for you. For every extra dollar they eke out of bougie hipster, they ostracize people like me who would definitely buy one if it was $500 or $600
Why do you feel entitled to be able to buy it at price point that suits you?
Re: Ten years of OP-1
#85Teenage Engineering is a frustrating company. On the one hand, they set out to create some of the most fun music equipment you can own: their Pocket Operator line is awesome for beginners of the hardware world, and they've consistently innovated with their grooveboxes. The problem? They have absolutely no respect for their pricing model. The OP-1 used to cost $800, which was already a big ask for a microprocessor, OL…
A music instrument is worth more than the sum of its components? Maybe high pricing makes it a sustainable business?
Re: Ten years of OP-1
#86Earlier quoted context omitted.
Sorry for the meta-discussion (which I know is against the guidelines), but I'm finding it really hard to respond kindly to your comment, given the overarching tone ("no respect", "hard to swallow", sarcasm about parts, "shitty pricing"). I'd love to engage with you on the merits of pricing for what the market will bear, CoGS including software and craftsmanship, etc, but I am not able. Perhaps that's my failing, but…
If my tone comes off as "acerbic", I guess I'm a little surprised. I love Teenage Engineering (and own a few Pocket Operators too), but I gotta call them out on the pricing issue here. When the price of the OP-1 did start to skyrocket in 2012, Teenage Engineering said absolutely nothing, and then discontinued it in 2013, sending the secondhand market soaring again. Of course, their response is to put it back into pro…
> Even their recent modular kits left a bad taste in my mouth...
Their modular is ridiculous, I can't imagine what they were thinking.
Re: Ten years of OP-1
#87Earlier quoted context omitted.
I've never heard of Dan Deacon but I clicked the NPR set you linked above and man - what a treat! Thanks for sharing, friend!
You're welcome! Dan Deacon's music is fun, and I've heard that his concerts are a blast. My favorite online presentation of his music is the collaborative video made by Adult Swim for the song "When I was Done Dying". https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TuJqUvBj4rE
Thanks for sharing, that was awesome.
Re: Ten years of OP-1
#88Teenage Engineering is a frustrating company. On the one hand, they set out to create some of the most fun music equipment you can own: their Pocket Operator line is awesome for beginners of the hardware world, and they've consistently innovated with their grooveboxes. The problem? They have absolutely no respect for their pricing model. The OP-1 used to cost $800, which was already a big ask for a microprocessor, OL…
You don't understand their pricing because you don't understand what they are actually selling. They don't sell musical devices, they sell status symbols.
You buy an OP-1 to look cool, not to actually make music with it. It's a bit like with the iPhone, but on a whole different level.
Some buy fancy sneakers, others buy fancy pens and Moleskine, others buy an OP-1.
And you can't have a cheap status symbol.
This is also why they look so clean and minimalistic, like a MacBook, to the point of sacrificing ergonomy, since the aesthetic is what they are selling, so they can't look gnarly, black and full of ports and cables like an actual musical device.
Re: Ten years of OP-1
#89Earlier quoted context omitted.
I've no problem with a company pricing a product to be what the market will bear. However, Teenage Engineering claiming they were jacking the price due to "supply issues" is just insulting.
I haven't heard about this. Were they busted lying about supply chain issues as an excuse to raise prices? Their stuff is pricey but cool, but if it's documented that they lied about that, that would be hard to get past.
They have talked about it some, seemed reasonable.
Also understand why it would not be a popular decision though. Think running a business, and understanding success can be very temporary if you are not careful helps.
"We have had to face other costs than the actual components’ costs of course. The currency conversion, inflation, sourcing of the new component, re-coding the display, re-designing the mounting, new tools etc. are just a few of the “why”. When Teenage Engineering faced the reality of the OP-1’s future, there were only 2 choices: kill or save. We decided to save it. I understand that the new price is a disappointment to many of our fans. But I do hope some are happy that we did not kill it."
https://www.gearnews.com/teenage-engineering-open-up-about-t...
Re: Ten years of OP-1
#90The UI design on the OP-1 has to be up there with any number of great moments in industrial design. The decision to remove the Rhodes piano sample pack from the default firmware, including for anyone who upgraded, has to be up there with one of the worst decisions in product management of all time. Also, the disparity between models with clickable control knobs and unclickable knobs to this day makes me feel deeply u…
I splashed out for an OP-1 but I bought it from Amazon rather than straight from Teenage Engineering. It was still sold under their store name, it seemed.
The best £1000 I've ever wasted, and kept the box for, just in case. It's a beautiful bit of kit (and it has the clicky controls) but I've still not become proficient enough to do anything but treat it as a toy. One day... one day... I'll make something practical using it.
Suffice to say, this is not the next Marc Rebillet speaking.