Google-free /e/ OS is now selling preloaded phones in the US, starting at $380 • Hacker News Board

Re: Google-free /e/ OS is now selling preloaded phones in the US, starting at $380

#81

Post by 177tcca » Fri, Mar 05, 2021, 3:35 AM UTC

hulitu wrote: post #71

177tcca wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not giving money to Google if you buy used. Also, not weird in the context of Google actively maintaining their position as a a top security firm these days, with Project Zero.

Project Zero is their Politburo. It only serves to make people believe that google is not evil.

It serves to make people confident that they're giving up their privacy and at least getting security back in return.

Which is what the general public wants.

For everyone else, there's Graphene.

Re: Google-free /e/ OS is now selling preloaded phones in the US, starting at $380

#82

Post by 177tcca » Fri, Mar 05, 2021, 3:36 AM UTC

websites2323 wrote: post #77

177tcca wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Carrier unlocked Pixel 3+ on Swappa.com, GrapheneOS.org. Web install takes moments these days, can be done by any 8th grader with a GrapheneOS phone, or PC with any major browser and a USB C cable.

I don’t want to do this. I want to buy one that is already done for me. It’s great that it’s so easy. I’m happy that people enjoy doing it. I simply don’t want to.

Shit, I'll mail you this one on my desk I just flashed for $150 more than I paid.

Let me know.

Re: Google-free /e/ OS is now selling preloaded phones in the US, starting at $380

#83

Post by 177tcca » Fri, Mar 05, 2021, 3:37 AM UTC

npteljes wrote: post #73

177tcca wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're going to do this, buy a Pixel so you can have the bare minimum in secure hardware. And consider GrapheneOS.

I'm sorry I don't get why you're downvoted. In what way is a Pixel phone more secure, hardware-wise?

Your guess is as good as mine. Misdirected hatred at Google services privacy bleeding into this debate?

Anyway, please read GrapheneOS.org in its entirety.

Re: Google-free /e/ OS is now selling preloaded phones in the US, starting at $380

#84

Post by FieryBinary » Fri, Mar 05, 2021, 7:54 PM UTC

twobitshifter wrote: post #50

throwawaygulf wrote: post #21

Get a Pixel 3/4 and throw GrapheneOS on it: https://grapheneos.org/ It's the best non-Google, privacy enhanced experience you can get at the moment.

Giving money to google to deGoogle yourself is an odd angle.

Not giving Google a few hundred dollars (or if you buy a used phone, $0) isn't going to hurt them.

Re: Google-free /e/ OS is now selling preloaded phones in the US, starting at $380

#85

Post by FieryBinary » Fri, Mar 05, 2021, 7:59 PM UTC

extropy wrote: post #14

age008 wrote: post #9

In Europe if we want a Google-free phone we just buy a Huawei.

Haha, you made my day. Huawei is likely worse than Google in tracking. Unless your reason is to avoid Google specifically.

And if you flash a good custom OS like GrapheneOS, maybe LineageOS without microG, then Google doesn't track you even if you use their hardware. Even better if you use a secure OS like GrapheneOS or standard AOSP without Google Play Services or bloatware.

Re: Google-free /e/ OS is now selling preloaded phones in the US, starting at $380

#86

Post by FieryBinary » Fri, Mar 05, 2021, 8:08 PM UTC

johnklos wrote: post #36

It's a fork of Android, so it's not Google-free.

By that definition, Linux, Chromium, and lots of other software isn't Google-free. But that's ridiculous. Android does not contain any tracking code, and at most uses Google servers as the default for network connectivity tests, etc. which you can change. Versions of Android running on actual phones often have tracking, but this is not related to Android itself and is largely about Google Play Services.

Re: Google-free /e/ OS is now selling preloaded phones in the US, starting at $380

#87

Post by FieryBinary » Fri, Mar 05, 2021, 8:16 PM UTC

npteljes wrote: post #73

177tcca wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're going to do this, buy a Pixel so you can have the bare minimum in secure hardware. And consider GrapheneOS.

I'm sorry I don't get why you're downvoted. In what way is a Pixel phone more secure, hardware-wise?

Pixels are pretty much the only Android phone that supports full verified boot with custom keys, meaning verified boot of the entire base system works no matter what OS you're booting (as long as your OS supports verified boot in the first place). They're about on par with iPhones security-wise, but Pixels support alternate OSes which is really nice.

Other Android phones often either have broken verified boot implementations (such as only verifying the kernel) or completely lack it.

The Titan M makes Pixels even better; it is a security chip which stores keys such as those for verified boot.

The security of Pixels is why security-focused mobile operating systems like GrapheneOS often target Pixels instead of say, Samsung Galaxies.

Re: Google-free /e/ OS is now selling preloaded phones in the US, starting at $380

#88

Post by FieryBinary » Sat, Mar 06, 2021, 4:21 PM UTC

FieryBinary wrote: post #87

npteljes wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sorry I don't get why you're downvoted. In what way is a Pixel phone more secure, hardware-wise?

Pixels are pretty much the only Android phone that supports full verified boot with custom keys, meaning verified boot of the entire base system works no matter what OS you're booting (as long as your OS supports verified boot in the first place). They're about on par with iPhones security-wise, but Pixels support alternate OSes which is really nice. Other Android phones often either have broken verified boot impleme…

Just to correct myself, about Titan M: It does more than just store keys, it also does other things that contribute to security.

Re: Google-free /e/ OS is now selling preloaded phones in the US, starting at $380

#89

Post by phh » Sat, Mar 06, 2021, 8:14 PM UTC

ignoramous wrote: post #34

phh wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The offers of GrapheneOS and /e/ are very different. /e/ targets to be a usable alternative to a google-owned software, which includes for instance cloud storage and backup, access to third party proprietary apps, etc. While GrapheneOS is harder to use, but it does provide much better security hardening.

hey there phh; slightly tangential, but: What are your plans for phh-treble? To be honest, if you've got the bandwidth, I'd love for you to start something comparative to /e/ and CalyxOS. With Generic Kernel Images (and APEX to an extent), do you see phh-treble likely replacing LineageOS as the preferred base for projects like /e/? Merci.

My goal for Phh-Treble remains the same, which is provide a good basis for a pure unmodified AOSP with good hardware support, so that other people can make whichever ROM they want with it. As such, I'm saddened that many ROMs, including /e/ still doesn't officially provide GSIs...

I haven't had a good look at either /e/ or CalyxOS, but /e/ looks like they are too focused on the marketing for my taste, /e/ really isn't known to be a contributor in term of source code to the community, their only contribution is bringing users (I do have a bit of respect for that). CalyxOS has nice things, it is much closer to what I'd want than GrapheneOS. CalyxOS tries to makes features closer to what you can get on a "standard" google-owner Android, and they are definitely a great value to the community, like SeedVault is a really nice addition for de-googlizing one-self. I feel that CalyxOS goes too much into security, while privacy/data-owning are already very nice features, and they restrict their user-base because of that.

I doubt that GKI would help phh-treble replace LineageOS. First, I'm happy there are LineageOS GSIs based on my work :-) But the real reason LineageOS persist is that most users want a ROM tailored for their own device. Sure one of the biggest real issue of phh-treble is the lack of security upgrade of the kernel, but from my experience discussing with many people asking me for device-specific ROM, the reason they want device-specific ROMs is really about feelings.

Most users feel a device-specific ROM will be more optimized. (no they are usually not Gentoo users). Usually they'll come to me with "hey, you have this feature that works on my device in GSI, but not in my device-specific ROM, could you help fix it?", when I ask why not just use my GSI, the answer goes with optimization, and the obvious answer is "It's so much more optimized that hardware features doesn't even work.".