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Cixin Liu's Postscript for the American Edition for “The Three Body Problem”

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Re: Cixin Liu's Postscript for the American Edition for “The Three Body Problem”

#81
post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I read the trilogy in Chinese but only the first book in English. The original Dark Forest is perfectly fine. Many people suggested it has the best storytelling among the three. 1. Ken Liu is generally considered (by people who have read the trilogy in both languages) a better translator 2. the Dark Forest's structure does feel a little "literary" to me, which might make you felt "the chapters were strangely broken u…

Thanks! I don't think the political correctness or other changes would have really bothered me, it was much more about structure. IIRC, there were some "chapters" in Dark Forest that were... over an hour? In Chinese, does the third book also go back to a more ... narrative style? That is, did you consider the first and third books to be "similar in style" but Dark Forest to stand out? Thanks again! P.S. I struggled t…

Do you structure your reading time in terms of chapters? Or perhaps did you feel that single plot points were dragged out?

Re: Cixin Liu's Postscript for the American Edition for “The Three Body Problem”

#82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Shows the western world has really gone to shit when even an author from mainland China finds its thought policing exhausting. Phillip K. Dick would be rolling in his grave.

Keep in mind that what an editor has in mind, you're trying to sell genre fiction that has certain genre expectations, and noticed deviations from the staple that readers notice ought to have meaning to them. Depending on the fiction the target audience grew up reading they may be sensitive to different tropes. e.g. it might be quite exhausting to read a novel with an overuse of "pure" and "angelic" in a most Angloph…

Isn't that the point of reading foreign SF? I grew up in Western Europe in the 80's and loved reading Cold War era Soviet science fiction precisely because it was different.

Re: Cixin Liu's Postscript for the American Edition for “The Three Body Problem”

#84
post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>"Focusing only on the negatives of a foreign country is not unless the goal is to agitate the populace for conflict and war." Western news media news is designed for western audience consumption. Pointing out the suffering of people in other countries is something that people with empathy want to know about. For example, when Western media points out the suffering of Palestinians, we hear that this is because of ant…

The point I was responding to was whether the western audience is well served if the media only focus on the negative side of the China story. It is not the same as the local paper's focus on crimes and tragedies. My main concern is that my boys don't get conscripted into serving in a future war promoted by people who don't paint a realistic picture of the world, on both what China is and on how much power the West (…

I don't think there will be a war with China, I don't want a war with China, and a war with China would be disasterous, even if it didn't involve nuclear weapons, it would disrupt the global supply chain. In fact, leaving aside China, I don't want the US involved in any wars, I don't want them selling arms, whether large or small, to countries, I don't want them running proxy wars.

I've lived in China, much of what the CCP is doing infrastructure wise is admirable. They've built 10s of thousands of miles of highways, high speed rail, waterways, electric grid, into historically underserved areas. And they have understandable paranoia having observed the breakup of the USSR, as well as bloody historical Chinese rebellions, like the Taiping rebellion, about what could happen if there is a revolution against the ruling party. This paranoia has perhaps fueled an overreaction, that is driving historical levels of brainwashing nationalism, down to the elementary school level, and insane levels of surveillance, etc. After 9/11, the US government utilized fear from terrorism to launch the Patriot Act, the Global War On Terror, invasion of Iraq, and NSA surveillance programs. Xi similarly latched on a few Uyghur terrorist incidents as an excuse to do, IMHO, massive violations of human rights.

I don't think it's a stable situation. Sooner or later something will give, either nationalism will spill over into a conflict because eventually the nationalists need to start an invasion against someone (probably Taiwan) to regain lost honor or satisfy a past humiliation, or if there is ever a financial implosion, they'll be great internal unrest, and without the "relief valve" of even pseudo-democracy, you'll great more and more tightening by the government, until a fed up population who is facing a declining economy for the first time, destabilizes the government.

This is not really about what Wolf Blitzer is saying on CNN, it's more or less about personal observations I see around rising fascism and nationalism around the world that has be deeply worried about this century, and that's without considering the Thucydides’s Trap, and that 12 of the last 16 confrontations between a superpower and a rising superpower have resulted in war.

Re: Cixin Liu's Postscript for the American Edition for “The Three Body Problem”

#85
post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Americans killed 99% of its indigenous population, alright robbed or bought under heavy pressure a large portion of its territory, it used 2 nuclear weapons which would be considered a crime against humanity if there were justice in the world, and barely anybody mentions it now. America is not yet 250 years old. China is 5000 years old.

> it used 2 nuclear weapons which would be considered a crime against humanity if there were justice in the world, By which you mean "if I were sole judge of everything happening in the world" - but you aren't, and it isn't. > and barely anybody mentions it now. You just mentioned it. And your comrades mention it all the time, both in the US and abroad. Scarcely any discussion involving anything political - not even…

> but you aren't, and it isn't.

Any decent person with an ounce of humanity knows it was a barbaric crime. Then you have your Bush, Trump and I suppose you for your enthusiastic support.

> describes yourself and your comrades.

It is the big bad commies, I tell ya, but we will make america great again.

> And yet, the same organization that perpetrated it still rules China, and under essentially the same ideology, only slightly tweaked.

The same you dont see the irony on criticizing China (btw the Cultural Revolution and the BLF were criminal things) and yet get your panties in a twist because a COMMIE dares to criticize the best country in the world(TM) says everything about your mental state.

Bye kiddo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t8EMx7Y16Vo

Who am I a kidding I'm 99% sure that you are white, male, over 40, socially inept and "libertatian". A walking,talking stereotype.

Re: Cixin Liu's Postscript for the American Edition for “The Three Body Problem”

#86
post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks! I don't think the political correctness or other changes would have really bothered me, it was much more about structure. IIRC, there were some "chapters" in Dark Forest that were... over an hour? In Chinese, does the third book also go back to a more ... narrative style? That is, did you consider the first and third books to be "similar in style" but Dark Forest to stand out? Thanks again! P.S. I struggled t…

Do you structure your reading time in terms of chapters? Or perhaps did you feel that single plot points were dragged out?

A bit of both.

I’ll often read a bit before going to bed, so super long chapters (e.g., greater than an hour?) mean I’m just choosing somewhere “less intentional” to stop.

I would also say that I recall (it’s been a while!) a lot of extraneous detail in some passages, that made me think “ugh, I kind of wish I could skip this, but if there’s a hidden plot element in here I shouldn’t”.

The extraneous detail was probably more frustrating than “long chapters”, but I find that the two go together and usually suggest a missed opportunity for editing.

Re: Cixin Liu's Postscript for the American Edition for “The Three Body Problem”

#87
post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it used 2 nuclear weapons which would be considered a crime against humanity if there were justice in the world, By which you mean "if I were sole judge of everything happening in the world" - but you aren't, and it isn't. > and barely anybody mentions it now. You just mentioned it. And your comrades mention it all the time, both in the US and abroad. Scarcely any discussion involving anything political - not even…

> but you aren't, and it isn't. Any decent person with an ounce of humanity knows it was a barbaric crime. Then you have your Bush, Trump and I suppose you for your enthusiastic support. > describes yourself and your comrades. It is the big bad commies, I tell ya, but we will make america great again. > And yet, the same organization that perpetrated it still rules China, and under essentially the same ideology, only…

Would a full scale invasion of mainland japan have been a barbaric crime?

Re: Cixin Liu's Postscript for the American Edition for “The Three Body Problem”

#88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Keep in mind that what an editor has in mind, you're trying to sell genre fiction that has certain genre expectations, and noticed deviations from the staple that readers notice ought to have meaning to them. Depending on the fiction the target audience grew up reading they may be sensitive to different tropes. e.g. it might be quite exhausting to read a novel with an overuse of "pure" and "angelic" in a most Angloph…

Isn't that the point of reading foreign SF? I grew up in Western Europe in the 80's and loved reading Cold War era Soviet science fiction precisely because it was different.

That was the express reason I chose to read these specific novels.

Makes the changes more disappointing.

Re: Cixin Liu's Postscript for the American Edition for “The Three Body Problem”

#89
post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, I know who he is, but he didn't change as much as you try to represent - China is still under the full control of the CCP. It's like Martin Bormann would take control over NDSAP, denounce some mistakes made by overzealous comrades, announced some modest reforms, and proclaim the new era - while NSDAP is still in control of Germany. > No other nation has transitioned out of communism smoothly. China didn't either…

This thread started under the topic "believe it or not, Chinese people are actually pretty happy with their government given the record over the last few decades". Can you think about what would be persuasive to such a person? They're not American, didn't grow up on your information diet, and really don't give a shit about what's "communist" or not. Their economy is state-controlled to the tune of Norway, or a little…

I've lived in a totalitarian state, and you can't really observe how happy the people are when their rights and means of expression are constantly suppressed. Even if some people were happy with the arrangement, I'm pretty sure people who are imprisoned, stripped of basic rights and sometimes just disassembled for spare organs aren't that happy.

> didn't grow up on your information diet

You don't know the first thing about my information diet.

> and really don't give a shit about what's "communist" or not

Hong-Kong protests showed pretty clearly they do, if they are not forcefully and violently suppressed. Of course, it's kinda hard to know if they give a shit if one gets shot for publicly admitting you give a shit.

> Their economy is state-controlled to the tune of Norway, or a little less so.

That's a lie.

> They are all doing way better than a generation or 2 ago

Generation or 2 ago Communists were literally destroying the country with Cultural Revolution, trying to purge it from any shred of old tradition and make all educated people forget all they know and go dig dirt in the fields. Pretending like stopping this and the resulting relative improvement of conditions is some great achievement of the Communists is the peak arrogance - what's the Chinese word for hutzpah? It's like if I beat you up for years and then stopped for a while and your health improved a bit and I would go around and brag that I am a great doctor - because I "cured" you from the sickness I was causing to you by beating you up!

Re: Cixin Liu's Postscript for the American Edition for “The Three Body Problem”

#90
post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it used 2 nuclear weapons which would be considered a crime against humanity if there were justice in the world, By which you mean "if I were sole judge of everything happening in the world" - but you aren't, and it isn't. > and barely anybody mentions it now. You just mentioned it. And your comrades mention it all the time, both in the US and abroad. Scarcely any discussion involving anything political - not even…

> but you aren't, and it isn't. Any decent person with an ounce of humanity knows it was a barbaric crime. Then you have your Bush, Trump and I suppose you for your enthusiastic support. > describes yourself and your comrades. It is the big bad commies, I tell ya, but we will make america great again. > And yet, the same organization that perpetrated it still rules China, and under essentially the same ideology, only…

> Any decent person with an ounce of humanity knows it was a barbaric crime. Then you have your Bush, Trump and I suppose you for your enthusiastic support.

Bullshit claims that whoever disagrees with you is "barbaric" and "inhuman" is just that - bullshit empty words, devoid of any substance. However, this is exactly the language that the people we're talking about used - Germans fought "barbarians" for the future of "humanity" and "civilization" - as they saw it, Japanese fought "barbarians" for the future of "civilization" - as they saw it. Read their propaganda, it's literally the same words. Both considered their enemies subhuman and devoid of any value or decency. That was what gave them the moral sanction for their atrocities. I am very happy they lost. I sincerely hope your side, whatever it is, considering people disagreeing with you sub-human, will lose also.

> It is the big bad commies

For you, it may be fun and jokes, for people who actually lived under communist regimes, it's the history of death, torture and oppression. You are welcome to make fun of it, because these people are not fully human anyway, since they might disagree with you. While furiously patting yourself on the back convinced in your moral superiority.

> yet get your panties in a twist because a COMMIE dares to criticize the best country in the world

The communists are morally aligned with one of the most oppressive and deadly ideology that we have seen so far, judging by the history of 20th century. And they should learn those lessons. It does not exclude US - or any other country - from criticism about problems they have - but communists have less right than anyone to mount the high horse and call out anybody, if they refuse to reckon with their own blood-stained past. There is a place for honest criticism - but people who deny anybody who disagrees with them human decency is not the people who you expect the honest criticism from. Especially when they openly align with the ideology that literally murdered hundreds of millions of people for the mere fact they were born to wrong parents or dared to disagree with the Party.

> A walking,talking stereotype.

Also probably not fully human. As usual from the moral high horse types, they only think about themselves and their comrades as human. All the rest are walking, talking whatever but not humans. Of course, then there's not much problem with suppressing them, and having a good hearty laugh about it.

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