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Facebook testing notification to users about Apple privacy changes

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Re: Facebook testing notification to users about Apple privacy changes

#81

Post by JumpCrisscross »

whammywon wrote: post #35
munchbunny wrote: post #2

I'm glad Apple is at least making sure users are aware that this is even a thing. While people on HN are much more likely to follow the issue and do something about it, a lot of laypeople are just vaguely aware that Facebook might be a privacy problem without really understanding what levers they have to manage it themselves.

Yes, but I think it would be a bit naïve to think that Apple is doing so out of the kindness of their hearts. Apple already has access to all the metrics that Facebook would be interested in. It seems to me like this is a set-up for Apple to force FB to buy the data directly from them.

> it would be a bit naïve to think that Apple is doing so out of the kindness of their hearts

Good. If they were doing it out of charity, a bit profit pressure, shareholder activism or change in management and the move is reversed. Being grounded in sound business logic and self-interest makes me trust it.

Re: Facebook testing notification to users about Apple privacy changes

#82

Post by marketingtech »

grishka wrote: post #48
lumost wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are a few factors at play here when it comes to advertising. 1) Digital is taking over all ad-channels 2) Digital ads can be tracked and attributed ways that were never possible with traditional media 3) It turns out most non-targeted ads aren't actually that effective, and aggregate ad spend is falling. FB ads are effective and high value because of tracking. If tracking goes away, FB ad revenue will fall to t…

How much does Facebook earn from one user, $1 a year? No one would've died if they switched to a $1/year subscription model. People tend to respect companies that are honest with them. Except Facebook won't ever be able to regain its reputation, but still.

In Q4 alone, they made $53/user in US/Canada, and $10/user worldwide. This revenue is not evenly distributed, and the type of user who is willing to pay $50/quarter for FB is worth much more than that to FB advertisers.

source: Slide 4 (ARPU) https://s21.q4cdn.com/399680738/files/doc_financials/2020/q4...

Re: Facebook testing notification to users about Apple privacy changes

#83

Post by Zelphyr »

grishka wrote: post #48
lumost wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are a few factors at play here when it comes to advertising. 1) Digital is taking over all ad-channels 2) Digital ads can be tracked and attributed ways that were never possible with traditional media 3) It turns out most non-targeted ads aren't actually that effective, and aggregate ad spend is falling. FB ads are effective and high value because of tracking. If tracking goes away, FB ad revenue will fall to t…

How much does Facebook earn from one user, $1 a year? No one would've died if they switched to a $1/year subscription model. People tend to respect companies that are honest with them. Except Facebook won't ever be able to regain its reputation, but still.

Doing that would equate to $2.7 billion a year in revenue. They currently generate about $70 billion a year. So, yeah; they'd pretty much die if their revenue dropped that much.

Re: Facebook testing notification to users about Apple privacy changes

#84

Post by _jal »

randmeerkat wrote: post #34
meekrohprocess wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People like you and I didn't decide that it was what we wanted. We just have no other options, because the companies which impose the terms aggressively snuff out or buy up their competition. I would argue that people are accepting these terms under duress; "consent" is the wrong word. The market believes that Facebook et al will be able to continue enforcing their will unilaterally, and that is good for the companie…

Everyone has options. I deleted FB years ago. No one actually needs FB.

I never signed up in the first place.

But I don't go to a school that posts assignments on FB (I have heard of this quite a bit), my workplace doesn't use it (ditto) and I'm in a comfortable-enough place that putting up with the passive aggression from family and friends when they whine about my comm preferences is no big deal.

Yes, everyone has options. But not everyone operates under the same pressures.

Re: Facebook testing notification to users about Apple privacy changes

#85

Post by catacombs »

otabdeveloper4 wrote: post #44
notyourwork wrote: post #3

Why would anyone agree to this? I don’t see a benefit to letting Facebook or any company track me across the internet. When did we ever decide this was what consumers wanted? Every time this topic comes up I check Facebooks stock price and realize how detached people are from facebooks revenue driven by the advertisement market.

You're not the consumer here. You're not paying for anything.

> You're not the consumer here. You're not paying for anything.

But you are the PRODUCT.

Re: Facebook testing notification to users about Apple privacy changes

#86

Post by rdiddly »

notyourwork wrote: post #3

Why would anyone agree to this? I don’t see a benefit to letting Facebook or any company track me across the internet. When did we ever decide this was what consumers wanted? Every time this topic comes up I check Facebooks stock price and realize how detached people are from facebooks revenue driven by the advertisement market.

So that the ads you don't want, are also creepily specific to things you mentioned recently? :D

Re: Facebook testing notification to users about Apple privacy changes

#87

Post by idreyn »

Wowfunhappy wrote: post #74
idreyn wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a simple man -- if I see a button with a primary intent color standing between me and my content I've been conditioned to press it, often before I realize what I'm doing or reading the accompanying text. Probably tens of millions of people will do the same here.

Remember though that this doesn't replace Apple's prompt!

That's true, I forgot about that. I appreciate that those prompts don't highlight a particular option which tends to force you to read them.

I wonder how often Apple will allow apps to re-request this permission when it's been denied; I have a handful of iOS apps that are constantly asking me to grant permission to see more of my photos, and I wish they'd rate-limit that kind of abuse.

Re: Facebook testing notification to users about Apple privacy changes

#89

Post by tal8d »

naiveai wrote: post #21
notyourwork wrote: post #3

Why would anyone agree to this? I don’t see a benefit to letting Facebook or any company track me across the internet. When did we ever decide this was what consumers wanted? Every time this topic comes up I check Facebooks stock price and realize how detached people are from facebooks revenue driven by the advertisement market.

So that the ads are more personalized. I know this sounds weird, but if I'm going to get ads anyway, I'd like them to potentially be products I'm going to maybe have a use for and might make my life easier. I get the privacy implications, but asking "why would anyone agree to this" is kind of narrow-minded.

Marketers aren't trying to match you up with products that meet some unfulfilled need you have, they are trying to get you to buy anything in the very limited window available to them. You seem to be under the impression that they'll maximize that opportunity by presenting you with something you'd find useful. There are more effective ways to sell, with an enormous amount of research dedicated to perfecting the process. Unsurprisingly, the result of such efforts - unbounded by any sense of morality, are pretty disgusting. Depression. Depressed people make the best consumers. That is what they are looking for when they're tracking your off-site activity. Do you imagine they are above trying to induce depression?

Re: Facebook testing notification to users about Apple privacy changes

#90

Post by JMTQp8lwXL »

Nextgrid wrote: post #29
JMTQp8lwXL wrote: post #14

The button saying "Ask App Not to Track": is it binding or non-binding? If I kindly asked an app to not track, I'm fairly certain the app would tell me to pound sand.

"Ask App Not to Track" just means the app will be denied access to the IDFA (which you can already do by turning on "Limit ad tracking" in settings). It's worded like that because this can't prevent the app from using something else (IP address or device fingerprinting) to track you.

Is the discussion moot if users can be easily fingerprinted without IDFA? It makes life slightly more difficult for advertising partners and social media companies, but not impossible. It's just a small additional barrier to friction that buys Apple some good PR.
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