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Ask YC: "Rock Star" Job Titles

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Re: Ask YC: "Rock Star" Job Titles

#81

Post by hugh »

SDC wrote: post #64

I have yet to meet a 'rock star' that was particularly impressive. They're 'washed up, surreal-life cast member' quality at best. Is there even such a thing as a 'rock star' anymore? There are indie-rock bands with small but loyal followings, sure, but 'rock star'? My daughter won't have any idea what the term means. It smells of old out-of-touchness. Like COBOL! ROCK STAR COBOL PROGRAMMER WANTED!

I think "rock star" has, and is intended to have, a certain retro charm about it. A marker that those who use it are from a more civilized age (the 1980s) when songs were sung instead of spoken, when mistreating women was something you did in the privacy of your hotel room rather than the subject of your lyrics, and when writing songs about how awesome you personally are was considered a little gauche.

Re: Ask YC: "Rock Star" Job Titles

#82

Post by SwellJoe »

I like to use the term "famously good". Unfortunately, that sets the bar extremely high. Not as high as it seems, though, since I mean, "famous in our segment of the market or for working with our preferred technologies". e.g. They've written one or more books on the topic, they headed up a popular FOSS project in the area or in the language, they wrote the definitive implementation of a really interesting concept, they have code in our language implementation (where language for us is Perl and JavaScript--so patches in the Firefox JavaScript engine or Perl 5 or Perl 6 are interesting indicators), etc. We'd even consider blogging to be a "famous" trait...though we'd want to see some code.

So, by that definition there are at least 50 people on HN that I'd hire without hesitation. And by that definition, I've worked with and for at least a couple dozen famously good people in my ten years in the industry (and the longer I think about it, the longer the list gets).

Interestingly, when I read "Rock Star Developer", I think, "Will work your ass off, get no equity, and get salary on par with the industry average." And when I think, "famously good", I think, "Will expect salary that is commensurate with output, will expect to work on interesting projects, and has his/her pick of jobs." And yet, the latter is who I want to hire, because I know the difference it makes in quality and productivity. If I can hire a famously good hacker for about 1.5 times the industry average, I'd consider it a good deal.

But I use the term because I know what it means...I'm not sure if it'd be meaningful to folks reading our job ads. So I'd probably be more explicit about what we're looking for.

Re: Ask YC: "Rock Star" Job Titles

#83

Post by aswanson »

The term "rockstar engineer" always struck me as a comedic oxymoron. Guess I'm not the only one. Terms like "kick ass" and "rockstar" do imply youth, however, which is not a bad thing as far as I'm concerned.

Re: Ask YC: "Rock Star" Job Titles

#84

Post by ahpeeyem »

hugh wrote: post #81
SDC wrote: post #64

I have yet to meet a 'rock star' that was particularly impressive. They're 'washed up, surreal-life cast member' quality at best. Is there even such a thing as a 'rock star' anymore? There are indie-rock bands with small but loyal followings, sure, but 'rock star'? My daughter won't have any idea what the term means. It smells of old out-of-touchness. Like COBOL! ROCK STAR COBOL PROGRAMMER WANTED!

I think "rock star" has, and is intended to have, a certain retro charm about it. A marker that those who use it are from a more civilized age (the 1980s) when songs were sung instead of spoken, when mistreating women was something you did in the privacy of your hotel room rather than the subject of your lyrics, and when writing songs about how awesome you personally are was considered a little gauche.

what you're describing sounds more like a "rap star"

Re: Ask YC: "Rock Star" Job Titles

#85

Post by nostrademons »

misterbwong wrote: post #75
nostrademons wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I usually ignore almost all the text in a job ad, because the vast majority of them all say the same thing. You want my attention? Give me an interesting puzzle to solve. Actually, I find that the coding questions a company gives you can say a lot about the company. I really liked FriendFeed's interview problems, even though I struggled with them, because I saw them and went "Wow, these two questions test for nearly…

Out of curiosity, where can I view FriendFeed's interview problems? I'd like to see them and gauge my current state.

Apply to them and get through the initial phone screen. (And don't take the job I want ;-P.) I'm not sure if they're public.

Re: Ask YC: "Rock Star" Job Titles

#86

Post by hugh »

ahpeeyem wrote: post #84
hugh wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think "rock star" has, and is intended to have, a certain retro charm about it. A marker that those who use it are from a more civilized age (the 1980s) when songs were sung instead of spoken, when mistreating women was something you did in the privacy of your hotel room rather than the subject of your lyrics, and when writing songs about how awesome you personally are was considered a little gauche.

what you're describing sounds more like a "rap star"

Sorry, perhaps I was unclear, I was trying to contrast rock stars with rap stars.

Rap stars are the 2008 equivalent of rock stars, but nobody talks about rap-star programmers, because rappers aren't nearly as cool -- at least, not to the demographic which tends to dominate programming.

And that's why we still aspire to be rock stars even though rock barely appears on the sales charts in this blighted age.

Re: Ask YC: "Rock Star" Job Titles

#87

Post by iigs »

steveplace wrote: post #19

Clearly we need to develop some new titles 1) Code Baristas 2) Python Jockeys 3) CrackerJack Developers (retro!)

This is resolutely brilliant.

My employer follows the Starbucks antipattern of calling employees "partners". No longer content to be a UNIX Engineer, I'm henceforth a UNIX Barista.

Thank you for this. You've made my day.

Re: Ask YC: "Rock Star" Job Titles

#88

Post by jrockway »

If you want a "rock star" developer, you can't ask someone to self-select. You have to know them, and then ask them directly.

I would never call myself a "rock star" (because it's a dumb expression), but I've personally never looked at a job ad and responded. I've always gotten jobs through friends that specifically said they would hire me. When you are going to spend 40 hours a week with someone, it's good for you to be friends.

Re: Ask YC: "Rock Star" Job Titles

#89

Post by natch »

I steer clear of rock star job listings too. I suspect it means they have a weak team, weak technology, or both, or some kind of tangled mess, and they hope someone can come and fix it all for them while the other team members hold their responsibility at arm's length.
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