Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

FATCA Pushes “Accidental” Americans to Give Up US Citizenship

time.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

81–90 of 210 posts

Re: FATCA Pushes “Accidental” Americans to Give Up US Citizenship

#81

Post by muststopmyths »

_petronius wrote: post #14
muststopmyths wrote: post #9

So, these people chose to keep their US citizenship, but chose to not follow the rules ? The woman was brought over as a baby, but chose to keep the citizenship into adulthood, presumably acquiring a passport or other citizenship documents. Otherwise how are the banks finding out ? Why should she be surprised if the IRS eventually comes for her ? Seems like giving up citizenship is the right solution for these people…

> but chose to keep the citizenship into adulthood, presumably acquiring a passport or other citizenship documents That is ... not how citizenship works. Once you are a citizen, it can be very difficult to get rid of that status (souce: born in the US, will end up paying an arm and a leg to get rid of mine). Failing to get a passport, file returns with the IRS, etc. can lead to you getting ignored, but it can also le…

>Example: most passports list the place of birth of the holder. If you are an American citizen, you must enter the US on a US passport

ooh, good point. I'd forgotten about that completely.

Re: FATCA Pushes “Accidental” Americans to Give Up US Citizenship

#82

Post by Timpy »

icu wrote: post #23

The solution is to use your accidental US citizenship to your advantage. The US is actually a remarkable tax haven and has some amazing trust structures if you know what you're doing. For example the Roth IRA, will in most cases due to reciprocal tax treaties, allow for a tax free pension even when your tax residency is in another county. On top of the trust structures I've alluded to, there are few reciprocal data s…

For some reason I think the 53 year old Dutch hair salon owner would rather just be left in peace than brush up on American tax law.

Re: FATCA Pushes “Accidental” Americans to Give Up US Citizenship

#83

Post by hartator »

eralps wrote: post #29

I am a green card applicant basically waiting to become a US citizen in the next 5 - 10 years. Comments are mostly blaming the person for not renouncing it but is renouncing really necessary? If I end up going back to the country I was born in and leave the US what benefit do I have as a US citizen? This has been a scary scenario for a long time for me and I don't think I would be able to pay tax to the US with my in…

Both permanent residents and citizens have to pay income on their worldwide income according to the IRS.

Re: FATCA Pushes “Accidental” Americans to Give Up US Citizenship

#85

Post by sdenton4 »

Digit-Al wrote: post #76
C4K3 wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A surprising number of Americans seem to think it's reasonable to tax non-residents, so such legislation may be hard to get passed. If you support such legislation, consider supporting lobbying groups such as American Citizens Abroad https://www.americansabroad.org/

> A surprising number of Americans seem to think it's reasonable to tax non-residents, so such legislation may be hard to get passed. So let's get this straight. On one side you have Americans who think it's reasonable to tax people who don't live in the country and thus don't use any of the services that tax pays for and then on the other side you have Americans who believe that all tax is theft under the threat of…

The core psychology of populist American politics is "F$ck you, got mine." Taxing other people is great, putting other people's kids in cages is ok, cutting off University funding is fine once you've gotten yours, etc...

Re: FATCA Pushes “Accidental” Americans to Give Up US Citizenship

#86

Post by wheybags »

elgatonegro wrote: post #65
nvarsj wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you're saying it's all okay as long as you remain a permanent employee your entire life with a company owned pension plan? Is that a joke? What if you want to buy property, invest in a business, open up a private retirement fund, or a million other things. All of these are a massive land mine for any American living abroad. On top of that you have things like FACTA that affects everyone. This kind of stuff has neg…

Buying property doesn't expose you to GILTI/transition taxes. Neither does investing in a business. You just have to pay taxes on income derived from that business, as normal. FATCA can be completely nullified by not maintaining foreign bank accounts. Keep your money in the US, problem solved. Maybe that's not an option for everyone but it's still an option.

> FATCA can be completely nullified by not maintaining foreign bank accounts.

That is not even remotely feasible. You pay forex fees every time you buy milk? Lots of government stuff / utility companies will only accept local bank accounts. The hassle and expense of having only a foreign bank account in a foreign currency is massive.

Re: FATCA Pushes “Accidental” Americans to Give Up US Citizenship

#87

Post by sailingparrot »

eralps wrote: post #29

I am a green card applicant basically waiting to become a US citizen in the next 5 - 10 years. Comments are mostly blaming the person for not renouncing it but is renouncing really necessary? If I end up going back to the country I was born in and leave the US what benefit do I have as a US citizen? This has been a scary scenario for a long time for me and I don't think I would be able to pay tax to the US with my in…

> If I basically stop being a citizen of the US by moving to another country why do I need to continue paying for it?

You don't "stop" being a citizen. Part of the process to apply for citizenship is education about what becoming a citizen means through the civics test, and it should be very clear to you that this is not meant to be just a convenient thing that you do as a formality.

Citizenship comes with rights but also duties, if you are not willing to accept the duties that comes with it, you should not become a citizen and you should instead renew your green card.

Re: FATCA Pushes “Accidental” Americans to Give Up US Citizenship

#88

Post by hartator »

mmaunder wrote: post #52
elgatonegro wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you become a US citizen you have to file yearly IRS tax returns, calculate and pay taxes. There is no getting around this, it does not matter where you live. The US has bilateral tax agreements with certain countries to avoid double taxation. So if you happen to be in one of these countries, you will normally pay taxes to your host country and if those are greater than the taxes owed to the US (which in many cases…

Good reply. This is a cost of US citizenship and you are not forced to acquire citizenship. You could get permanent residency. I had to make this choice and chose citizenship 15 years ago. It’s a hell of a thing swearing that you’ll bear arms to defend a country you weren’t born in. I have had many occasions to feel glad that I did. From military base tours to easier to entry/exit to Canada to buying a house or getti…

Well I have another good news for you: Permanent residents still have to pay the IRS the same way citizens do even if they left or to renounce their green card.

Re: FATCA Pushes “Accidental” Americans to Give Up US Citizenship

#89

Post by MarkSweep »

aroberge wrote: post #67
icu wrote: post #23

The solution is to use your accidental US citizenship to your advantage. The US is actually a remarkable tax haven and has some amazing trust structures if you know what you're doing. For example the Roth IRA, will in most cases due to reciprocal tax treaties, allow for a tax free pension even when your tax residency is in another county. On top of the trust structures I've alluded to, there are few reciprocal data s…

This is an overgeneralization that is clearly incorrect in some cases. Just a quick example for Canadians, from [1]: > Usually, it is best for United States citizens to not hold TFSAs since the costs of tax reporting and compliance usually exceed any benefits. There is no US equivalent for TFSA. [1] https://www.taxesforexpats.com/articles/retirement/simple-us...

It sounds very similar to a Roth IRA, the very account type mentioned by the GP. (Though the roll over and lack of income limits make it more accessible)
Post reply on HN