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Covid: France rewards frontline immigrant workers with citizenship

bbc.com

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Re: Covid: France rewards frontline immigrant workers with citizenship

#81

Post by cryptica »

This sounds nice but whenever I hear something like this or any kind of philanthropy, I always think of all the people who missed out because of some technicality. What about people who were in the final stages of studying to be a nurse and were waiting for the government to send back some paperwork to begin work on the front line and they missed out on the citizenship by a few weeks... Or people who lost their job through no fault of their own and were sent back to their country just before the pandemic.

I don't like philanthropy because it creates more cracks for people to fall through and more inequality based on luck. Citizenship is a very big gift. Kind of like a lottery. It's a huge deal for many people. I hope it went to very deserving people.

Re: Covid: France rewards frontline immigrant workers with citizenship

#82

Post by mtarasevicius »

cryptica wrote: post #81

This sounds nice but whenever I hear something like this or any kind of philanthropy, I always think of all the people who missed out because of some technicality. What about people who were in the final stages of studying to be a nurse and were waiting for the government to send back some paperwork to begin work on the front line and they missed out on the citizenship by a few weeks... Or people who lost their job t…

perfect is the enemy of good...

Re: Covid: France rewards frontline immigrant workers with citizenship

#83

Post by hef19898 »

bawolff wrote: post #2

Service garuntees citizenship! Would you like to know more? Jokes aside, seems reasonable enough to grant citizenship for those who have performed exceptional civic duty.

France always had a way to citizenship called, I paraphrase here, "citizenship by blood spoiled". Quite often used in case of members of the foreign legion. It basically says, that when you get hurt or wounded while serving the French Republic you are eligible to become a French citizen. Fair enough, if you ask me.

Re: Covid: France rewards frontline immigrant workers with citizenship

#84

Post by Retric »

roenxi wrote: post #76
ohmaigad wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Using absolute numbers probably isn't the smartest idea. Canada has more immigrants per population than USA.

Absolute numbers seems legitimate. The US per capita immigration rate is largely the result of the high absolute number of immigrants taken in over US history.

Absolute numbers are heavily dependent on country size and most countries are tiny. Vatican City at the extreme end is formed 100% from immigrants, but has a tiny and self limiting population.

Re: Covid: France rewards frontline immigrant workers with citizenship

#85

Post by DaedPsyker »

thefz wrote: post #19

Reminds me of that case, in France too, in which a Malian immigrant has been offered citizenship and a job as a firefighter after he risked his life climbing a building to save a kid: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-france-hero/france-offers...

France usually gives citizenship for service or sacrifice to France,'Français par le sang versé', French by spilled blood.

Re: Covid: France rewards frontline immigrant workers with citizenship

#86

Post by cryptica »

mtarasevicius wrote: post #82
cryptica wrote: post #81

This sounds nice but whenever I hear something like this or any kind of philanthropy, I always think of all the people who missed out because of some technicality. What about people who were in the final stages of studying to be a nurse and were waiting for the government to send back some paperwork to begin work on the front line and they missed out on the citizenship by a few weeks... Or people who lost their job t…

perfect is the enemy of good...

What's good for some people is often bad for some other people. Win-win scenarios are very rare.

As a thought experiment, if you gave half the population 1 million dollars, then that would drive house prices through the roof and the unlucky half of the population would be enslaved to the lucky half paying high rents. The lives of the unlucky half would be absolutely ruined. There is no good there. It's zero-sum but in a way it's worse because it was 100% luck and those who worked hard were punished.

To have real equality, you need equality of opportunity. Equality of outcomes is not equality; otherwise it's not equal if someone sacrifices less and gets more rewards; they are privileged, they are fortunate.

Re: Covid: France rewards frontline immigrant workers with citizenship

#87

Post by synecdoche »

atoav wrote: post #75
bawolff wrote: post #2

Service garuntees citizenship! Would you like to know more? Jokes aside, seems reasonable enough to grant citizenship for those who have performed exceptional civic duty.

As someone who has some (immigrant) friends which try/tried to get a foothold in Germany usually the opposite is the norm: You can do everything by the book, be the perfect citizen and in the and you are thanked by daily racism and a bureaucratic maze. To have the strength to stay a good person through all of that is a big achievement. This is why I think showing as a society doing things the right way counts. This i…

A glass is seen as either half full or half empty. All that can be perceived as racist is not necessarily so. There could be a number of reasons for unpleasant outcomes, none more likely than the other.

Re: Covid: France rewards frontline immigrant workers with citizenship

#88

Post by FooHentai »

DaedPsyker wrote: post #85
thefz wrote: post #19

Reminds me of that case, in France too, in which a Malian immigrant has been offered citizenship and a job as a firefighter after he risked his life climbing a building to save a kid: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-france-hero/france-offers...

France usually gives citizenship for service or sacrifice to France,'Français par le sang versé', French by spilled blood.

IIRC this citizenship pathway is almost uniquely French, and one of the main reasons people sign up to the French Foreign Legion.

Re: Covid: France rewards frontline immigrant workers with citizenship

#89

Post by vnall »

HuwytNashi_006 wrote: post #61
jeofken wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The sooner there is no longer even a concept of '(Arab|Jew)' or '(Yemeni|Israelite)', the sooner humanity can move beyond racist policies such as in the related link.

Looks like I've upset the anti-Semites again. Israel is fundamentally different to Europe. It is a safe harbour to combat millennia of racial oppression and violence. It must remain Jewish or our identity will be erased. Europe has and will continue to benefit immensely from diversity and multiculturalism, and we must be actively working to break down the barriers to a positive demographic transformation. Enforcing h…

> It must remain Jewish or our identity will be erased.

Splendid, so this does not apply to European identity and culture?

If the unlimited immigration that you demand happens in Europe, we'll have Islamic states in no time. I'm sure that'll be totally fine and beneficial for Israel...

The inconsistencies are mind boggling.

Re: Covid: France rewards frontline immigrant workers with citizenship

#90

Post by tasogare »

thefz wrote: post #19

Reminds me of that case, in France too, in which a Malian immigrant has been offered citizenship and a job as a firefighter after he risked his life climbing a building to save a kid: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-france-hero/france-offers...

While it’s not uncommon to give citizenship for helping the country (notably by spilled blood in the légion étrangère), this particular case is widely thought to be a staged event. A lot of things are really really strange, for instance how a small kid arrived in this position (some French scientists ruled it impossible), why the man who is holding him from the balcony don’t save it directly, why no investigation have been ordonned, etc.

Even a national, recognized media don’t buy it: https://www.sudradio.fr/societe/revelations-sur-laffaire-mam...

Don’t forget this happened in a context of permanent terror attacks that eroded the image of immigrants. In particular, it conveniently happened less than two months after the hostage-taking of 23 March 2018 which lead to the death of lieutenant-colonel Beltrame, an episode that shocked the public opinion.

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