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Covid: France rewards frontline immigrant workers with citizenship

bbc.com

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Re: Covid: France rewards frontline immigrant workers with citizenship

#71

Post by tuwtuwtuwtuw »

the-dude wrote: post #37
bmsleight_ wrote: post #33

As a person that leans towards socialism. I want to understand from someone who leans towards capitalism, the reluctance with immigration. We have people who will travel large distances for a potential benefit (i.e risk takers), who like the articles mentioned, are happy to work hard. This is the ideal characteristics of an entrepreneur or early employee or a start-up. More labour, lowers labour costs. What is the re…

If you are so curious, maybe you should do some more research. I suggest visiting some suburbs of Paris, or Stockholm. Furthermore, we are already in the EU, which is a trade-block only, favoring capitalists ( and driving down labor costs ). edit: If you want hard numbers, look up the labor participation for NL.

I have visited suburbs of Paris and Stockholm several times since I have relatives who have lived there. What is your point?

Re: Covid: France rewards frontline immigrant workers with citizenship

#72

Post by jpxw »

KaiserPro wrote: post #58
jeofken wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because natives inherit the land from their forefathers.

Yeah but you are missing the essential part of the french empire: you're french. So most of north africa has french ancestors.

Under this logic, everyone in Britain has Italian ancestors.

Re: Covid: France rewards frontline immigrant workers with citizenship

#73

Post by barry-cotter »

tomp wrote: post #38
bmsleight_ wrote: post #33

As a person that leans towards socialism. I want to understand from someone who leans towards capitalism, the reluctance with immigration. We have people who will travel large distances for a potential benefit (i.e risk takers), who like the articles mentioned, are happy to work hard. This is the ideal characteristics of an entrepreneur or early employee or a start-up. More labour, lowers labour costs. What is the re…

There needs to be a balance. Unlimited immigration is unsustainable (Europe can’t support 3bn people), so there have to be some limits. Also, I value my culture (not in the “food & language” sense, but in “enlightenment values” sense), and have no interest in admitting more people who don’t value or respect this culture. Finally, you need to correctly read the situation. Most pro-immigration people support it to lowe…

Three billion people in the current European Union would be 68 people per square km, about as dense as Mexico or Ukraine.

As far as culture goes immigrants assimilate. By the third generation it’s rare to actually be able to speak the language of their ancestors. Catholic immigrants to the US were feared as agents of Rome. Now the average American Catholic has a Protestant conception of what religion is, they’re so mixed in. Or look at Asian Americans. From the point of view of someone living in China the idea that people actually identify with this is more than a little absurd. It’s like white. This identity has no purchase in the emigrant sending countries. In the end without continuing immigration all ethnic communities that are not closed to intermarriage dissolve.

As far as humanitarian reasons go for opposing immigration controls see Fabio Rojas or Bryan Caplan. We exist.

Re: Covid: France rewards frontline immigrant workers with citizenship

#75

Post by atoav »

bawolff wrote: post #2

Service garuntees citizenship! Would you like to know more? Jokes aside, seems reasonable enough to grant citizenship for those who have performed exceptional civic duty.

As someone who has some (immigrant) friends which try/tried to get a foothold in Germany usually the opposite is the norm: You can do everything by the book, be the perfect citizen and in the and you are thanked by daily racism and a bureaucratic maze.

To have the strength to stay a good person through all of that is a big achievement. This is why I think showing as a society doing things the right way counts.

This is the foundation of the unwritten societal contract: if you go by the rules everything will turn out well for you. If you break the rules, act egoistic etc, you might end up in a bad place.

This is why stuff like coruption, worker exploitation, tax evasion etc is worse than just stealing the people's money — it is also undermining the trust into that unwritten societal contract.

This contract is of course fiction Which means that believing into it is either optimistic or naive depending on your country. But if it breaks down thing will only get much worse

Re: Covid: France rewards frontline immigrant workers with citizenship

#76

Post by roenxi »

ohmaigad wrote: post #42
neither_color wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US has the largest immigrant population in the world and one of the highest immigration rates among developed countries. I resent how casually blatantly false anti-US comments like this get voted up without any data to back them up, almost like it's a fad to talk-down America. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_to_the_United_Stat...

Using absolute numbers probably isn't the smartest idea. Canada has more immigrants per population than USA.

Absolute numbers seems legitimate. The US per capita immigration rate is largely the result of the high absolute number of immigrants taken in over US history.

Re: Covid: France rewards frontline immigrant workers with citizenship

#77

Post by raverbashing »

BossingAround wrote: post #69
yodsanklai wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Once you are eligible for citizenship (which can take a long time) You must 1. take an appointment to have your document checked (waiting time 1 year) 2. take an appointment to submit the actual application (1 year) 3. wait for the result, 1 1/2 year. So by the time you are eligible, it can take 3-4 years before you know the outcome of your application. These 3-4 years don't serve any obvious purpose that I can think…

That's the real problem in a lot of EU countries. This, coupled with highly inefficient ways of delivering results, appointment dates/locations, or inefficient locations in general (e.g. you reside in city X yet you have to appear in person in city Y that is 200km away just to submit a form). This can be especially heartbreaking when one has to take a time off just to appear in city Y, spend money on transport, and t…

While citizenship is a privilege, not a right, decades, or maybe centuries of bureaucratic procedures pile up and are not reviewed/simplified ending up with situations like that

Add the factor that the public service does not have the same kind of incentives (and being a native of the country makes you know about the ways of making things work - foreigners don't know that usually)

Granted, not all countries are like that. And while people might complain about German bureaucracy, they at least make an effort to do things by the book (meaning: if your appointment says a certain time, you'll be seen at that time)

And American bureaucracy also has its quirks and complications when seen from outside.

Re: Covid: France rewards frontline immigrant workers with citizenship

#78

Post by bruceb »

thefounder wrote: post #64
brobdingnagians wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And that is their decision. I think it is best for each country to decide for themselves, based on their culture, objectives, history, and values. France has a way of doing it, Canada has a way of doing it, China has a way of doing it, and the US has a way of doing it. One size fits all is least applicable when it comes to nation states.

So a country made of and built by immigrants doesn't want immigrants anymore. I think that culture has a name: hypocrisy

There have always been limits to immigration. Almost no one is saying no immigration. Needs change. What the country needs now might not be the same as 150 years ago.

Re: Covid: France rewards frontline immigrant workers with citizenship

#79

Post by redis_mlc »

HuwytNashi_006 wrote: post #61
jeofken wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The sooner there is no longer even a concept of '(Arab|Jew)' or '(Yemeni|Israelite)', the sooner humanity can move beyond racist policies such as in the related link.

Looks like I've upset the anti-Semites again. Israel is fundamentally different to Europe. It is a safe harbour to combat millennia of racial oppression and violence. It must remain Jewish or our identity will be erased. Europe has and will continue to benefit immensely from diversity and multiculturalism, and we must be actively working to break down the barriers to a positive demographic transformation. Enforcing h…

[dead]

Re: Covid: France rewards frontline immigrant workers with citizenship

#80

Post by eastendguy »

atoav wrote: post #75
bawolff wrote: post #2

Service garuntees citizenship! Would you like to know more? Jokes aside, seems reasonable enough to grant citizenship for those who have performed exceptional civic duty.

As someone who has some (immigrant) friends which try/tried to get a foothold in Germany usually the opposite is the norm: You can do everything by the book, be the perfect citizen and in the and you are thanked by daily racism and a bureaucratic maze. To have the strength to stay a good person through all of that is a big achievement. This is why I think showing as a society doing things the right way counts. This i…

I am curious what kind of problem had or have your friends? Usually it is quite straightforward to get citizenship in Germany. Have a job for 7 years and no criminal record, and you can apply. Source: The (formerly) foreign colleagues I know had no problem with the process.
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