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PRISM – NSA surveillance program did not prevent a single terrorist attack

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Re: PRISM – NSA surveillance program did not prevent a single terrorist attack

#81

Post by zepto »

docPangloss wrote: post #48

I referenced PRISM in a comment to a recent Apple article on HN a couple of days ago. It triggered HN and Apple fans and the comment ultimately got shadow-banned by moderators.[1] Anyway, it’s astonishing that so many people willfully continue to use products/services offered by the core companies that are members of PRISM surveillance. Members provide access to ALL user data/information to NSA et al. Here are some t…

The problem is that what you are saying is false, and the links you provide don’t back up your assertion in the slightest.

Perhaps some of these companies ‘joined’ prism willingly, but Google and Apple both deny having done so.

The dates you quote are from slides indicating when prism started to acquire data from these companies. They have nothing to do with membership or joining.

Data was obtained from these companies without their particpation, and they have taken measures to harden their systems since this was made public, for example in Google’s case prism obtained data by intercepting their underground fiber optic cables. Data was previously sent unencrypted between data centers along these, but after the intrusion was discovered, Google moved to encrypting this traffic.

If you can find evidence that either of these companies willingly became members of prism, then please present it.

Otherwise, you are repeating false claims.

Re: PRISM – NSA surveillance program did not prevent a single terrorist attack

#82

Post by rhacker »

I want Snowden to be pardoned. And I think the data collection network was both illegal and morally wrong.

But that doesn't make me believe these kinds of articles. Most of these types of articles for the past numerous years have the same formula. Case X proves it was useful, case X is determined to not be relevant to the data collection methods, typically by someone biased. And it's always a judge out of one of the most liberal places. (and I'm liberal / democrat)

It's weaksauce, and most of the people here are unwilling to see past it because they also agree with my first paragraph. We can have freedom and "live more dangerously". That's pretty much the entire point of how America came to be. We shouldn't spy on all of our people - and yes that comes with consequences. That's not the same as spying on specific people that we know will or may cause harm.

Re: PRISM – NSA surveillance program did not prevent a single terrorist attack

#84

Post by phobosanomaly »

bastardoperator wrote: post #28
jagged-chisel wrote: post #4

You'd think if it had stopped any attacks, the program's proponents would be shouting it from the rooftops. But no- nothing. Not even attempts to lie ("oh, we stopped several attacks, but we can't tell you anything about them...") PRISM is a phenomenal waste of trust and money.

They're not going to tell you about wins or loses, it would be silly to think otherwise. I'm not saying I agree with the program in any capacity, but those of us that have worked with government have a simple saying "loose lips sink ships".

We read about the loses in the news, because people are killed and injured.

We hear about the wins too.

The whole Bin Laden raid was a massive publicity coup for the Obama administration. It was shouted from the rooftops.

If a president can point to something in an election year and go "see, see there, I made you people safer," they will.

Re: PRISM – NSA surveillance program did not prevent a single terrorist attack

#85

Post by onedognight »

ianbutler wrote: post #5

No one should be surprised by this. This program was simply another extension of the US's march towards authoritarianism. Much like the patriot act and our secret warrants, founded on a dubious premise that over the last 20 years have largely borne no fruit in terms of protecting our freedoms and safety but have instead eroded them. This is a system designed to protect the larger system from any civs who may be getti…

What examples do you have an authoritarian slide caused by PRISM? I see plenty of examples of authoritarianism in the current U.S. administration, none of which can be traced to PRISM.

Re: PRISM – NSA surveillance program did not prevent a single terrorist attack

#86

Post by anjel »

MarcellusDrum wrote: post #44
ianbutler wrote: post #5

No one should be surprised by this. This program was simply another extension of the US's march towards authoritarianism. Much like the patriot act and our secret warrants, founded on a dubious premise that over the last 20 years have largely borne no fruit in terms of protecting our freedoms and safety but have instead eroded them. This is a system designed to protect the larger system from any civs who may be getti…

The "Patriot Act" is so maliciously named its more funny than sad. Reminds me of George Carlin's show about changing words to make them softer.[1] An good example he used to show this is the condition the fighters get from shock in combat. In WW1, it was called Shell Shock, a terrifying name. The same condition in WW1 was called Battle Fatigue, a nicer name. In the Korean War, the name changed to Operational Exhausti…

Government obfuscation by nomenclature is a useful and reliable tell.

Re: PRISM – NSA surveillance program did not prevent a single terrorist attack

#87

Post by zepto »

Zigurd wrote: post #60
corrund wrote: post #9

I prevented one terrorist attack by myself. Nobody knows that, because attack was prevented.

The "secretly prevented attack" thing is bunk because really prevented attacks, and the plotters of those attacks, end up in court and in prison.

Do they? What about attacks prevented before a crime has been committed?

By your logic, gun control can’t prevent any shootings.

Re: PRISM – NSA surveillance program did not prevent a single terrorist attack

#88

Post by phobosanomaly »

hnaccy wrote: post #25

Why is there so little call for reform from congress and new administrations etc? Obama or Trump had no part in building the original system so why do they continue it? Is the political class as a whole 100% on board with authoritarian, privacy invading, controlling America?

Apathy likely plays a large role.

Most people don't care enough to bug politicians about it, so politicians don't do anything about it.

Most people have zero clue what PRISM is, and they just don't care. They're trying to pay rent and make sure their kids are learning long division over Zoom.

Re: PRISM – NSA surveillance program did not prevent a single terrorist attack

#90

Post by bigbubba »

anoncareer0212 wrote: post #35
anm89 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bush and his crew had the Patriot act written before 9/11 and were simply waiting around for a circumstance to justify enacting it. Honestly I'm surprised this is even a controversial opinion at this point. This is exactly what Snowden exposed. That these programs were as if not more focused on internal spying than anything else.

Quite an extraordinary claim, I'm surprised _you're_ surprised it's controversial: can you share a little bit more about how Snowden exposed the Patriot Act was prewritten & waiting for an excuse to be enacted?

Claiming it was entirely conceived and written in only 42 days is the extraordinary claim. If you believe that, I have a bridge to sell you.
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