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Tesla worst for reliability in American driver survey

driving.co.uk

81–90 of 231 posts

Re: Tesla worst for reliability in American driver survey

#81
post #4

>The J.D. Power US Initial Quality Study, which gauges problems encountered in the first three months of ownership. A very questionable definition of "reliability".

It's not a good measure of reliability, but it's a good measure of quality control, where Tesla seems to be sorely lacking. I've had two Model 3s, and I love the car. I had one last year that I had to return when I changed jobs, but I loved it so much I immediately ordered another. With that context, the QC is really poor. The first one I got last year had lots of cosmetic issues that I spotted when I picked it up, mostly paintwork. I missed the fact that the cloth on one of the speakers was damaged until it was too late. The Model 3 that I got this year was delivered in March, just before lockdown, so I didn't get much chances to use it at first. I just collected it today from the service center where it had been to have a scary fault fixed. I was driving along when suddenly a loud chime, and regen braking was disabled and the handling changed completely, and the car no longer decelerated when lifting off the accelerator pedal. An alignment issue that was a quick fix (aside from the four week wait for an appointment and the two hour round trips to drop it off, and then collect it). I separately now need to wait for a mobile repair next month to replace a parking sensor. These sort of things should have been caught before the cars left the factory.

Re: Tesla worst for reliability in American driver survey

#82
post #54

JD Power is clearly in bed with the traditional Detroit automakers. If you look at their history of rewards[0], you'll find that many times they choose the big three american companies vehicles over clearly superior import vehicles. They're vehicles on the page show one vehicle from each of the three big automakers in the US, one Chevy, one Ford, and a Dodge. There's also a Volvo in there that I'm sure fought some ba…

As someone who used to be an automobile engineer working for a big automaker in the a previous life, J.D power rankings are a complete farce. Their surveys are designed so that a particular automaker will win (overrating certain metrics for no reason) and then make money by charging automakers to use those awards. They have a vested interest in giving awards to automakers that are more in need of them. (not German or…

So technically this is a pay-for-play kind of shenanigans?

Re: Tesla worst for reliability in American driver survey

#83

This survey is garbage. Survey design is an art. And unfortunately, this survey does not differentiate between a big problem like "brakes are shot" and a small one like "My spotify playlist doesn't show up like I want". Dig a bit deeper, for Tesla, > Infotainment is the source of more than a quarter of all problems Another thing to point out is that J.D. Power’s IQS does not differentiate between a problem that is th…

And for several other manufacturers, the infotainment system is also the single largest source of problems, not "faulty brakes" or similar, so it's not like Tesla is being singled out here. > design issue in which everything works as intended but the learning curve might be too steep. It could be entirely argued that a design with a too steep learning curve, _especially when intended to be used in a moving vehicle_ i…

Though when you stuff everything except the engine and brakes into the infotainment system, it does put you in a worse spot when your infotainment system locks up.

How many other cars do you need to learn a button combination on the steering wheel to reboot the infotainment screen when it crashes while driving, and then while it reboots your turn signals stop making sounds and you don't have a speedometer?

Re: Tesla worst for reliability in American driver survey

#84

This survey is garbage. Survey design is an art. And unfortunately, this survey does not differentiate between a big problem like "brakes are shot" and a small one like "My spotify playlist doesn't show up like I want". Dig a bit deeper, for Tesla, > Infotainment is the source of more than a quarter of all problems Another thing to point out is that J.D. Power’s IQS does not differentiate between a problem that is th…

And for several other manufacturers, the infotainment system is also the single largest source of problems, not "faulty brakes" or similar, so it's not like Tesla is being singled out here. > design issue in which everything works as intended but the learning curve might be too steep. It could be entirely argued that a design with a too steep learning curve, _especially when intended to be used in a moving vehicle_ i…

Tesla has the most complex infotainment system in the industry. More complex software generally has more issues and complaints.

People are going to have more issues and encounter more problems when using Microsoft Word versus Notepad. Word would therefore perform worse in a survey like this. That doesn't mean Notepad is a better piece of software or that Word users would want to switch to Notepad given the option. So what is this survey really telling us?

Re: Tesla worst for reliability in American driver survey

#85
post #68

I drove a rental Tesla recently. We were parked in a long line waiting to board a ferry and I was playing chess on the main console. When the line started to move, I tried to too and car just wouldn't go or start. People stuck behind me started getting impatient and honking while I was trying to figure out what had happened, turning off and on again, pressing random buttons, accidentally popping the trunk, etc. It to…

I drive a Honda and it has this glitch where it will get into a state when it says "Depress brake to start" but what it wants is the opposite: it will NOT turn on if you are depressing the brake. This once caused a great deal of honking, at me, in traffic. The purpose of my anecdote is that many carmakers are not great at software development.

Personally, I hate when they use the word depress to mean "to press something down", because that's what I think of "press" as meaning, and depress to me immediately makes me think "opposite of press" or "stop pressing". To my eyes, it would be much clearer to say "press the brake" or "activate the brake pedal".

Re: Tesla worst for reliability in American driver survey

#86
post #85
post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I drive a Honda and it has this glitch where it will get into a state when it says "Depress brake to start" but what it wants is the opposite: it will NOT turn on if you are depressing the brake. This once caused a great deal of honking, at me, in traffic. The purpose of my anecdote is that many carmakers are not great at software development.

Personally, I hate when they use the word depress to mean "to press something down", because that's what I think of "press" as meaning, and de press to me immediately makes me think "opposite of press" or "stop pressing". To my eyes, it would be much clearer to say "press the brake" or "activate the brake pedal".

I have the same mental ambivalence about "engage the clutch". Is it engaged when the engine is connected to the transmission? Or when they are disconnected?

But this is English and we have words like "inflammable".

Re: Tesla worst for reliability in American driver survey

#87
post #3

The survey is meaningless if they do not disclose the questions.

I spent a few minutes searching. J.D. Power has no information on the actual questions and I only found one article from the surveyed consumer side.

The Initial Quality Survey page: https://www.jdpower.com/business/automotive/us-initial-quali...

Methodology link: https://www.jdpower.com/ratings-methodology

Cars.com article about receiving a survey: https://www.cars.com/articles/filling-out-a-j-d-power-survey...

Re: Tesla worst for reliability in American driver survey

#88
post #46

I think this is a bit misleading. The metric is "problems" per 100 cars. That could mean the car's transmission gave out or it could mean there is a software bug or paint issue that is causing the driver problems. In the case of Tesla it could be the case a lot of problems are due to software bugs that can be corrected over the air seamlessly for free. I think classifying each problem into categories with associated…

Why? Because we're used to software bugs?

What? Just saying a minor software bug (possibly Spotify not integrating correctly) is not the same as a transmission or brake failure. Also, in Tesla's case the minor bugs can be fixed relatively quickly and for free. I don't know what you're talking about being used to software bugs.

Re: Tesla worst for reliability in American driver survey

#89

JD Power is clearly in bed with the traditional Detroit automakers. If you look at their history of rewards[0], you'll find that many times they choose the big three american companies vehicles over clearly superior import vehicles. They're vehicles on the page show one vehicle from each of the three big automakers in the US, one Chevy, one Ford, and a Dodge. There's also a Volvo in there that I'm sure fought some ba…

[deleted]

Re: Tesla worst for reliability in American driver survey

#90
post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And for several other manufacturers, the infotainment system is also the single largest source of problems, not "faulty brakes" or similar, so it's not like Tesla is being singled out here. > design issue in which everything works as intended but the learning curve might be too steep. It could be entirely argued that a design with a too steep learning curve, _especially when intended to be used in a moving vehicle_ i…

Tesla has the most complex infotainment system in the industry. More complex software generally has more issues and complaints. People are going to have more issues and encounter more problems when using Microsoft Word versus Notepad. Word would therefore perform worse in a survey like this. That doesn't mean Notepad is a better piece of software or that Word users would want to switch to Notepad given the option. So…

"Tesla has the most complex infotainment system in the industry."

... which is a major design flaw.

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