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Workman Keyboard Layout (2010)

workmanlayout.org

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Re: Workman Keyboard Layout (2010)

#81

Keyboard layouts are incredibly fascinating. For the amount of typing that is done today it feels like we are collectively still in the Dark Ages of textual input. A while ago on HN there was link to a talk from a stenographer (the people who do court reporting and other live transcription). They achieve the highest WPM by using a smaller keyboard and pressing "chords" of multiple keys at the same time, which map to…

I never worked with dvorak or bepo but I felt qwerty or azerty are enough.. it's a bit like a guitar, things are not optimal, painful at times but you can do wonders anyway with some training.

Re: Workman Keyboard Layout (2010)

#82
post #74
post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is going back into the dark ages (we were taught on electric typewriters!) but when I did a typing course I was told only ever to use my left pinky for shift and right thumb for space.

Is there a rationale behind that?

Not one that I'm aware of, and a quick check of modern online typing resources doesn't share the same bias. I guess it was either the teacher's preference or something she was taught in typewriter school.

Re: Workman Keyboard Layout (2010)

#83
post #35

I had some pain in my right pinky and it made me realize tons of programming symbols and Enter are over there. I’ve been strongly considering remapping them somehow, though after wrapping my pinky and ring finger together for a couple weeks I was fine.

I have sticky modifiers on the top alpha row on middle fingers. So E+JK give me (), E+M, give me {}, E+UI give me [], E+H gives =. I+QWERTASDFGV give me numbers, I+U gives & and so on.. (actually I use a custom dvorak, but it's probably less confusing to explain this in terms of qwerty). Every symbol is bound this way. Shifts are also sticky so I don't need to tense up my hand so much for every capital letter.

I'm still using too much pinkies for ctrl, but I think only a new keyboard will fix that (I need a proper thumb cluster, kinda like I had on my kinesis advantage).

Re: Workman Keyboard Layout (2010)

#84
post #17

> Try typing “The” with the T capitalized on Colemak and hopefully you’ll see what I mean. Try typing “The” with the T capitalized on Colemak and hopefully you’ll see what I mean Why is he shifting with his right hand instead of his left? It seems obvious, but maybe isn't: you should shift/ctrl with the opposite hand that is going to type the letter.

I tripped up on this part as well. I've been using colemak for many years, and I don't enter "the" the way described.

When your hands rest on the home row, you left pointer finger is already on "T" and your right middle is on "E." To enter "The" you only need to move your left pinkie 1 cm to the left-shift key and your right pointer 1 cm left to "H". It's so little movement you can just about smash all four keys at once.

Re: Workman Keyboard Layout (2010)

#85

Keyboard layouts are incredibly fascinating. For the amount of typing that is done today it feels like we are collectively still in the Dark Ages of textual input. A while ago on HN there was link to a talk from a stenographer (the people who do court reporting and other live transcription). They achieve the highest WPM by using a smaller keyboard and pressing "chords" of multiple keys at the same time, which map to…

One argument goes: Stenographers need to optimise for input speed, almost everyone else doesn’t have that requirement.

Another argument goes: we don’t know what creativity might be enabled if everyone had that option / ability.

I’ve always thought fingertip and finger joint implants would make good contacts for chord-like input. Ideas are cheap though.

Re: Workman Keyboard Layout (2010)

#86
DON'T DO IT*

I absolutely love Workman. It's gorgeous. I spent months learning it, getting fast with it. I even got the supercool matrix style keyboard, I was so into it.

But now I use QWERTY, and I sold my matrix style keyboard. Why? 1. Using the standard is useful. Other people's computers use QWERTY. Terminals for typing things in airports use QWERTY. When you have to do first aid stuff on your system, you're not going to get to change the layout. 2. QWERTY actually isn't bad. Yes, the home row is largely wasted, but other than that, it's not as ludicrous as you've been reading. For evidence, look up who the fastest typists in the world are - plenty of them use QWERTY.

* if you think it's going to make you more efficient. If it's for fun, go for it. For me, it was worthwhile, because I got to forget QWERTY and re-learn with proper touch typing, not whatever 3-finger nonsense I was doing before.

Re: Workman Keyboard Layout (2010)

#87
post #48

I appreciate such efforts and consider QWERTY more or less a historical accident. But how do you actually use these layouts? Do you pull the keys from your keyboard and rearrange them physically? But what about notebooks then where this is often not possible? Or do you train you brain to remember the key positions so that it doesn't matter what character is printed on a key? But how do you _learn_ the layout then? Th…

I learned at keybr.com, which shows the layout on the screen. Then, once you are properly touch-typing, it doesn't matter what's printed on the key caps. (And thankfully, Workman doesn't move the symbols around, so you can still cheat there :D)

Re: Workman Keyboard Layout (2010)

#88
post #36
post #24

Looks very interesting, but re-learning how to type is so painful, not to mention devastating to my productivity at work, that I think I can only afford to do it once in a lifetime... I recently made the switch from QWERTY to Dvorak, during a 2 week period while I was in between jobs, and it was one of the most frustrating things I've ever done. Over a month later and I'm back up to a plodding 60 WPM (from a glorious…

I was curious about vim as well. I wonder if the defaults of vi are somehow optimized for QWERTY. This thread convinced me to try switching to Dvorak but I'm a bit scared after reading your comment. It's not clear from your comment, did you switch back to QWERTY or are you still giving it a shot?

I've used dvorak & vim for 15 years with mostly default vim bindings. I don't think there's any problem. (I also use emacs with evil)

Re: Workman Keyboard Layout (2010)

#89
post #48

I appreciate such efforts and consider QWERTY more or less a historical accident. But how do you actually use these layouts? Do you pull the keys from your keyboard and rearrange them physically? But what about notebooks then where this is often not possible? Or do you train you brain to remember the key positions so that it doesn't matter what character is printed on a key? But how do you _learn_ the layout then? Th…

Touchtyping means you should never look at the keyboard - you rely on your muscle memory and relative positioning (starting from those little ridges on two characters in the middle of the keyboard) to hit the right key. As anything related to muscle memory, like learning an instrument or playing ball, it’s all about practice.

If you decide to try a new layout, print an image of it and keep it in front of you, then load some typing tutor program (some web-based ones: keybr, keyzen, ratatype, but there are desktop ones too which typically work better than browser-based ones, because those struggle to correctly detect the actual layout) and start practicing. After a few hours, you can try your hand at something fun like Typeracer, and then it should be downhill from there.

You’ll likely have to spend a few weeks doing an hour or so of daily practice, tolerating a lower rate of typing and a higher rate of mistakes (which is the most frustrating part - try to go for precision, even if it means being slower, it will work better in the long run).

I would recommend starting over a weekend and giving it at least 4h per day, so on Monday you should be good enough to resist the inevitable pressure to switch back. I started mid-week a few times, in the evening, and it was a mistake - without significant practice, the temptation to roll back to be productive is too high.

This is my experience anyway. Spurred by a bout of wrist pain, I switched to a Kinesis Freestyle about 5 years ago, and then to Colemak a year later. I never looked back, this combination took away my wrist pain for good. I can still occasionally use qwerty without cursing too much, but the impact on my wrists is definitely noticeable compared to Colemak. Same for going back to laptop keyboards, particularly post-2016 Apple ones (admittedly I've not tried the very latest one).

Re: Workman Keyboard Layout (2010)

#90
post #11

I'd love to see a rigorous analysis of whether this type of keyboard layout really reduces repetitive stress injuries. The metrics presented are interesting, but the reduced finger movement could be a bug rather than a feature. Small micro-stretching by having to reach for keys could actually be beneficial.

It would be very difficult to get enough people to switch layouts to do any kind of study. But you can probably look to gaming, where they optimize the layouts of the keys/gamepads and there's plenty of RSI. I think changing keyboard layout is unlikely to have any benefit. Especially since you need to spend an extra hour or two a day on typing drills to become productive. That must offset any benefit.

Depends on your definition of “benefit”.

You can drop regular practice after a while, so the penalty on speed and accuracy is effectively capped; while the benefit on wrist health is not, because it will stay with you for life. Imho a month or so of lower productivity is worth the long-term effects.

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