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Total Cost of Her Covid-19 Treatment: $34,927.43

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Re: Total Cost of Her Covid-19 Treatment: $34,927.43

#81
post #44
post #8

You could buy 0.018 Tomahawk missiles for that or treat 54 people for every Tomahawk missile fired. All of the Tomahawk missiles fired since 2001 would have provided 119.000 people with free Corona treatment. I am thinking that countries with free healthcare care more about keeping their own people healthy than dropping missiles and misery on other countries people.

While your point is valid, it also illustrates how the U.S. subsidizes European entitlement programs by implicitly reducing those countries’ defense spending. If the U.S. were to cut back on defense, European countries would have to cut back on social welfare programs.

> If the U.S. were to cut back on defense, European countries would have to cut back on social welfare programs.

Why? What if they are happy with their defence spending as it is? Its an unproven American trope that their defence would HAVE to increase.

Who, pray tell, is going to invade nuclear armed France and the UK?

Re: Total Cost of Her Covid-19 Treatment: $34,927.43

#82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

you realize this is literally only as of the ACA in 2010? and if the trump administration has its way (there's a supreme court case on the docket to completely kill ACA) we're going back to that?

What’s your point? It’s true now.

that there are literally active efforts working to make it not true

Re: Total Cost of Her Covid-19 Treatment: $34,927.43

#83
post #73
post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’re wrong. In Canada and most countries with government single payer insurance you can buy private supplemental insurance that covers more elective or less necessary things the single payer doesn’t. I haven’t seen a Medicare for All proposal that bans that.

"About 27.6% of Canadians' healthcare is paid for through the private sector. This mostly goes towards services not covered or partially covered by Medicare, such as prescription drugs, dentistry and optometry. Some 75% of Canadians have some form of supplementary private health insurance; many of them receive it through their employers.[63]" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Healthcare_in_Canada If a quarter of spending…

Don't take the Canadian medical system out of context.

BASELINE medical which exists for ALL CANADIANS covers vast majority of procedures. Heart Attack? Included. Stroke? Included. Broken Leg? Included. Black Eye? Included. Got a nasty bug on your trip? Included.

You only have to pay for some additional items like eye exam and dental.

Most expensive common dental procedure: wisdom teeth removal, root canal ... Total cost is under $10,000...

How about the optician? The most expensive eye exam? Usually free if you buy a pair of glasses. Glasses start at $100.

Drugs can be expensive, but, guess what? They're free if you're under 25. If you're over 25, it's still covered a lot by the federal government first. You pay less than what it costs in America.

What's our trick? We have price caps on procedures instead of each hospital feeling like it has to engage in a nonsense cat-and-mouse pricing term negotiation game.

Re: Total Cost of Her Covid-19 Treatment: $34,927.43

#84

The face values on medical bills in the US are like a bizarre joke - to a first approximation, no one ever pays them. Everyone with insurance gets insurer-negotiated "discounts" to around ~10% of the listed cost. It's tougher for people without insurance - my understanding is that you can negotiate with the entity that sent you the bill to get significant reductions, but I don't have first-hand experience doing this.…

> Everyone with insurance gets insurer-negotiated "discounts" to around ~10% of the listed cost.

Except when they get screwed.

Friends are middle-class teachers in a good neighbourhood outside LA. Have been so for 18 years, have good health insurance.

She has a baby (should be a joyous time), emergency C section required. The following morning the insurance company says $60k/day is too expensive, and they need to move hospitals this very moment or they won't pay a dime. No transport provided.

A day after a C section he had to drive his wife and That's downright barbaric.

Re: Total Cost of Her Covid-19 Treatment: $34,927.43

#85
post #64
post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While your point is valid, it also illustrates how the U.S. subsidizes European entitlement programs by implicitly reducing those countries’ defense spending. If the U.S. were to cut back on defense, European countries would have to cut back on social welfare programs.

Are you trying to say europeans have money to spend on an almost fair medical system because they are spending far less money on military because the USA spends enough to „protect“ the europeans? Because that would sounds like a joke. Europe is spending less money in military because its not entering so many wars or conflicts.

The 30,000 US troops stationed in Germany and the existence of NATO are significant factors in European countries spending so little on defense.

Re: Total Cost of Her Covid-19 Treatment: $34,927.43

#86
post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s like saying home insurance is a tax on people whose homes don’t burn down. Isn’t the whole point of insurance to have everyone (sick and healthy) pay for the few?

Insurance implies you have a choice in the matter (i.e. it is optional), but in this case (Obama-era health insurance) it wasn't optional. So why not just call it a tax, which is what it really was? To me it sounds very similar to social security tax - the young being forced to pay to subsidize the old.

The use of the term “insurance” is used for non-optional programs where the premiums are taxes. Perhaps not in the US though.

Re: Total Cost of Her Covid-19 Treatment: $34,927.43

#87
post #64
post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While your point is valid, it also illustrates how the U.S. subsidizes European entitlement programs by implicitly reducing those countries’ defense spending. If the U.S. were to cut back on defense, European countries would have to cut back on social welfare programs.

Are you trying to say europeans have money to spend on an almost fair medical system because they are spending far less money on military because the USA spends enough to „protect“ the europeans? Because that would sounds like a joke. Europe is spending less money in military because its not entering so many wars or conflicts.

Yes, that is more or less true. EU countries can afford to spend so little on military because the USA protects Europe's interests in other parts of the world including the ocean and middle east. Trump toyed with the idea of withdrawing from NATO and EU panicked because they have no military.

Re: Total Cost of Her Covid-19 Treatment: $34,927.43

#88
post #12
post #8

You could buy 0.018 Tomahawk missiles for that or treat 54 people for every Tomahawk missile fired. All of the Tomahawk missiles fired since 2001 would have provided 119.000 people with free Corona treatment. I am thinking that countries with free healthcare care more about keeping their own people healthy than dropping missiles and misery on other countries people.

That math only makes sense if you take the medical industry’s insane pricing model as gospel. If you had a straightforward nationally run healthcare system the math would be way more favorable still.

Other countries have price caps on their procedures. This makes sense to make the price for a procedure the same across hospitals. It's the same work. Marketing and Sales people should not be involved in the pricing structure of healing a broken leg.

Re: Total Cost of Her Covid-19 Treatment: $34,927.43

#89
IMO, this current crisis exposes a very strange dichotomy: government is essentially shutting down parts of the economy over shelter-in-place orders, but when people lose their jobs and (for some) employer health care, the government doesn’t deal with the repercussions.

Look, I think shelter in place is a great idea for humans. But this is a case of doing the right thing for the masses hurts the individual. Sad times.

Re: Total Cost of Her Covid-19 Treatment: $34,927.43

#90
post #59
post #43

It’s a shame that the only candidate that wants to tear down this ridiculous health system is getting the boot by the party he is aligned with. The health system in the US is only accessible to those with money. It doesn’t have to be this way. I am not saying socialized healthcare will cure all ailments, but it would definitely be better than the current privatized system.

Medicare for all doesn't give people a choice between private insurance or government insurance. It's a non-starter, i am happy with my insurance like tens of millions of people in the US. Government option gives us a choice proposed by the front runner. Everyone wants to compare us to Canada. Canada gives you a choice and 25% have private insurance. Edit: going to vote me down for just listing facts.

I have private insurance with a Fortune 500 company and I am still not happy with my insurance. I still have no clue what my bill will be after each visit.

Doctor's office bills for X and Y, but insurance will only pay for X and half of Y. Then I have to fight the insurance company to pay for Y.

This back and forth between the doctor, patient, and insurance company is highly unnecessary and the only benefactor is the insurance company. One could argue that the private health insurance industry is actually causing costs to go up because doctors, hospitals, and clinics have to submit detailed medical billing codes to get properly paid for their services.

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