Run as root to avoid typing sudo or su? That is like having a handgun without the safety! No thank you!
Interestingly I've been told by handgun users that this is currently a popular idea.
Popular need not imply secure. :-)
EasyOS: An experimental Linux distribution designed from scratch for containers
81–90 of 94 posts
Re: EasyOS: An experimental Linux distribution designed from scratch for containers
#82Earlier quoted context omitted.
There is Fedora CoreOS, it seems pretty active. https://github.com/coreos/fedora-coreos-tracker
I'm actually looking for a good container hosting OS right now. I remember hearing some stuff about CoreOS being deprecated or something, but I can't find anything concrete?! Do you know what the situation is? I also looked a bit at RancherOS today, which looked pretty cool, but it seems to use 10x the memory of CoreOS...
Fedora CoreOS is intended to eventually provide a suitable replacement for ContainerLinux.
Red Hat ships a variant of RHEL called RHEL CoreOS, but the only way to run it is as part of OpenShift (for instance via https://try.openshift.com) where it is the default OS for machines which are managed as part of the cluster, so it’s not a real ContainerLinux equivalent (which you can run individually).
Re: EasyOS: An experimental Linux distribution designed from scratch for containers
#83Earlier quoted context omitted.
Containers run processes, in a context where those within a container only see those within the same container, by underlying OS accounting generalization.
Containers aren't even a thing like that though. They don't run anything per se. Implementations vary but it can be as simple as an extra struct field in the process list.
agreed that my language was sloppy. genuine thanks.
Re: EasyOS: An experimental Linux distribution designed from scratch for containers
#84After spending a scant few minutes looking at it, here are the things I like about this project so far: - It has a "How and why are we different" page. In the age of "I made a meta package on top of Ubuntu and called it a new OS", it's refreshing to see a Linux distribution come right out and say "here's what we do that separates us from the other 700". - It actually is different. Recognizing the nigh-uselessness of…
Maybe it's because of my limited experience with containers but I can't imagine why on earth you would prefer GUI tools (especially a graphical shell) in a container.
Application isolation and the ability to upgrade separate applications and components with their dependencies separately from each other. Less issues with "update X" now broke A, B and C apps... you now have to add a PPA for Apps A and C, but B you'll have to build from source, oh crap, no longer actively maintained... switching to D app which was forked a couple months ago.
Not to mention the ability to easily support different build tool chains combinations, etc. Right now, my preferences are flatpak, snap, ppa, repo in that order.
Not really looking to play with a new linux, Manjaro is next on my list. Currently running Pop!_OS, which has been nice (just jumped this past month, haven't tried a linux desktop in 5+ years before that). I've been relatively happy.
That said, my biggest issues so far:
* need to update kernel and new mesa drivers before putting the 5700 XT video card. * needed to update kernel for wifi support (intel ax). * rainbow puke from RGB controllers, the Gigabyte (X570 Aorus Master) support is all but worthless, and the open-source project I saw was actually for windows. For the Lian Li o11 Dynamic Razor edition case, there's open-source Razor drivers, but I'll need to setup a windows drive in order to capture some data in order to support the specific device. I haven't even looked into the Corsair ram yet (which is actually the biggest eye sore at the moment).
I really regret not building another black box. My first two choices of cases without windows were sold out, so I went for the "pretty" case option. Which would be great if I were running windows, but I have no intention to. A lot of money on RGB fans (all matching), water cooling, ram, etc... and none of the controllers have good linux support. Would switch to another controller, but the only one I keep finding is a German company and doesn't seem to actually be sold anywhere. Which wouldn't cover the ram or case.
Re: EasyOS: An experimental Linux distribution designed from scratch for containers
#85Run as root to avoid typing sudo or su? That is like having a handgun without the safety! No thank you!
Interestingly I've been told by handgun users that this is currently a popular idea.
That's because when you actually need the handgun you'll want it to function as expected when you pull the trigger. A safety is just extra complication that provides no significant benefit if you're already handling the firearm like you're supposed to (which is to say, never pointing it at anything you don't want to destroy). Even without external safeties, modern firearms often do contain internal safeties to ensure that they only go off when the trigger is operated, as opposed to being dropped or something.
Re: EasyOS: An experimental Linux distribution designed from scratch for containers
#86After spending a scant few minutes looking at it, here are the things I like about this project so far: - It has a "How and why are we different" page. In the age of "I made a meta package on top of Ubuntu and called it a new OS", it's refreshing to see a Linux distribution come right out and say "here's what we do that separates us from the other 700". - It actually is different. Recognizing the nigh-uselessness of…
Maybe it's because of my limited experience with containers but I can't imagine why on earth you would prefer GUI tools (especially a graphical shell) in a container.
I might be off-base, but when I hear someone talk about running GUI tools in a container, I think about being able to effectively fork application configs/intallations and environments. I run an extremely minimal arch installation on my production machine. It's... nice, I guess. I'd love to experiment with it more and make something even more customized, but I can't risk any downtime.
And a large portion of my computer is command line tools, sure. But I'm also running EXWM, I'm also running Firefox, I'm also running Tiled, and Blender, and so on, and so on. I don't want to get rid of my command-line tools, but I'm not only running command line tools. I want to be able to download a game, put it in a container, mess around with my drivers until it runs well, and then delete the container when I'm done and know 100% all of the customization just went away.
This was what originally got me excited about Docker, until I dug into it and realized Docker kind of didn't work particularly well for that.
My understanding is if I sat down and did the research, I could build something like that with regular Linux tools, but it's time consuming and as interested as I am in the underlying tech, I just know very, very little about how this stuff works.
But I always perk up whenever I hear someone talking about running graphical applications in containers, because in the back of my head I'm mapping that to some kind of fictional computing utopia where I can have complete isolation between processes and treat my computer like a Git repo.
Re: EasyOS: An experimental Linux distribution designed from scratch for containers
#87Earlier quoted context omitted.
> that doesn't make any sense on a personal computer where the more pressing need is to protect the user from malicious applications. Of course it makes sense. Running applications as restricted users has been standard practice for decades, precisely because it makes sense.
> Running applications as restricted users has been standard practice for decades ...as a way of preventing users from interfering with the system or other users in multi user systems. Running applications as a user different from yourself is an ugly hack we've started doing because we don't have actual control over what our applications can access, so things like ransomware are possible despite not having system lev…
Once you add backup in the picture, the local users are great. My main account can have all the ransomware it wants, all the backups are gong to stay intact, so I can restore the files.
* in the real life, there is “sudo hole”, but this can be fixed within the current user concept.
Re: EasyOS: An experimental Linux distribution designed from scratch for containers
#88Earlier quoted context omitted.
Maybe it's because of my limited experience with containers but I can't imagine why on earth you would prefer GUI tools (especially a graphical shell) in a container.
I might be off-base, but when I hear someone talk about running GUI tools in a container, I think about being able to effectively fork application configs/intallations and environments. I run an extremely minimal arch installation on my production machine. It's... nice, I guess. I'd love to experiment with it more and make something even more customized, but I can't risk any downtime. And a large portion of my comput…
I have been wanting something like you describe for forever. Honestly, the closest thing that I've found to this that works-out-the-box is Crostini in ChromeOS.
I don't love ChromeOS, but if I started building what you're looking for, I'd look at Crostini for inspiration.
Crostini can spawn gui apps through Wayland instead of pure X. That takes effort and I wish they would contribute it back.
Re: EasyOS: An experimental Linux distribution designed from scratch for containers
#89After spending a scant few minutes looking at it, here are the things I like about this project so far: - It has a "How and why are we different" page. In the age of "I made a meta package on top of Ubuntu and called it a new OS", it's refreshing to see a Linux distribution come right out and say "here's what we do that separates us from the other 700". - It actually is different. Recognizing the nigh-uselessness of…
> - They use the ROX filer, the only file manager for Linux with AppDir support and the centerpiece of the unfortunately long-defunct ROX Desktop.
I was so happy when ROX Desktop was still active and alive. It had exactly all features necessary to use a file browser, blazing fast and the UI was really intuitive. Actually it inspired me for years to maintain a ~/Apps folder, so reinstalling my system mostly just meant copying over my home folder.
Re: EasyOS: An experimental Linux distribution designed from scratch for containers
#90> Run as root. This is controversial, however, it is just a different philosophy. The user runs as administrator (root), apps may optionally run as user 'spot' or in containers as a "crippled root" or user 'zeus'. The practical outcome is that you never have to type "sudo" or "su" to run anything, nor get hung up with file permissions. Yeah, no thanks.
Quite, it's ridiculous. You have individual account for individual people. Use sudo if you need to elevate permissions - that gets fired over to your syslog server, so if you screw up you know what you did. If someone else screws up, you can see who it was and either fix it, or contact them to find out what they were trying to do (likely both)
What's ridiculous is taking a security model designed for multiuser university mainframes in the 1970s, riddling it with 40 years of hacks to get around places where it's inconvenient, and insisting that it is the One True Way to run a personal laptop. I'm glad that some people are willing to fight dogma and be experimental.