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Women make up 54% of new students entering Iranian universities

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Re: Women make up 54% of new students entering Iranian universities

#81

Post by nickik »

joelbluminator wrote: post #78
skitout wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For sure they don't want to give it up for free ! Just like any country Iran want to defend its interests, to play its hand the best it can... And leverage in many countries (now even in Africa) and the nuclear weapon are "trump card" in the game, so they reinforce it for now... They will wait for the next US election and see how they can work something after it

"Iran want to defend it's interests" : well arguably bringing your country to the brink of economic collapse due to American sanctions isn't in Iran's best interests. We will see what the new American president (could be still Trump btw) is gonna do.

The problem is that it is insane to go with the US demands. US demands are driven by regmin change, not resonable demands.

There is NO WAY any Iranian government would simply give up its rocket program, specially when literally every power around you has them. Specially when they don't have an Airforce.

Iran has complied and tried to work with the international system on the nuclear question. They have behaved pretty reasonably going back to early 2000s. Their demands and programs are not outrages if any other country had made them.

The US wants to destory and overthrow all of their allies and the have bases in basically every country around Iran.

In reality econoimc sanctions do not collapse a country, the evidence of that is pretty clear. And it doesn't lead to regimn change either.

Re: Women make up 54% of new students entering Iranian universities

#82

Post by timeu »

daliusd wrote: post #5

I was in Iran last year so let's give some perspective why this metric alone is useless: 1. Before university boys and girls learn in separate schools. 2. After university women have almost zero chances for career. It is more probably that they will end up being house wives. I doubt that this has changed in a year. I have not checked my facts - that's impression from speaking with open minded Iranian families (and we…

Sorry but your second point does not correct. I have relatives in Iran (all my female relatives have finished university in Iran and work). Last time I visted my cousin (this is alreay some years ago) he showed me around the company he works for (IT company) and half of the software engineers there were women.

Re: Women make up 54% of new students entering Iranian universities

#83

Post by joelbluminator »

nickik wrote: post #81
joelbluminator wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Iran want to defend it's interests" : well arguably bringing your country to the brink of economic collapse due to American sanctions isn't in Iran's best interests. We will see what the new American president (could be still Trump btw) is gonna do.

The problem is that it is insane to go with the US demands. US demands are driven by regmin change, not resonable demands. There is NO WAY any Iranian government would simply give up its rocket program, specially when literally every power around you has them. Specially when they don't have an Airforce. Iran has complied and tried to work with the international system on the nuclear question. They have behaved pretty…

It's not just US demands, I don't think Europe is crazy about Iran having ballistic missiles armed with Nuclear warheads either (nor is it crazy about the idea Saudi will have them). Iran is responsible for destabilising oil supplies recently, is 100% responsible for arming Hezbollah and of course extends it's influence to Yemen, Iraq and Syria. Saudi Arabia is doing none of that and doesn't seem to care that much about building an empire of "influence" around the middle east.

I don't think it's "crazy" to go with U.S demands. it requires letting go of ego and the dream of the shiite revolution and empire I guess, or at least postponing it. It's like saying Kim from North Korea is would be crazy to let go of his crazy regime, how is that crazy?

Re: Women make up 54% of new students entering Iranian universities

#84

Post by TulliusCicero »

nabla9 wrote: post #73
TulliusCicero wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Iranian leadership is not crazy group of religious lunatics. Ayatollahs are very conservative group of politicians who use religion for political control. It's not the motivation, it's the use. From a classical liberal western perspective, the government explicitly using religion for control is being a crazy religious lunatic. We're talking about a country where Islam is the official religion, renouncing it is ille…

Everything you say applies to Saudi Arabia. There is no justification to not having Iran as an ally instead of Saudi Arabia or Pakistan.

> Everything you say applies to Saudi Arabia.

Yes, Saudi Arabia is also full of religious crazies. Anyone who pays attention to the news knows about Wahhabism, and the morality/religious police there.

Re: Women make up 54% of new students entering Iranian universities

#85

Post by CDSlice »

Double_a_92 wrote: post #67
yyyk wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Iran bans females from attending sports events and imposes mandatory hijab (e.g. [0]), Turkey does not. You can oppose Western policy if you like, but lets talk about the country's policies as they really are. [0] https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/sep/10/iranian-female...

> Iran bans females from attending sports events and imposes mandatory hijab But would that really be that terrible in the grad scheme of things? Would you not wear a mandatory hat and renounce on sport events if everything else was faily good? This only seems like massive oppression from our privileged western view.

How is being forced to wear specific clothing and being banned from certain areas for no reason other than your gender _not_ massive oppression? It's literally taking away your ability to decide for yourself as a human being.

And yes, I'm a privileged westerner, but that doesn't exactly seem relevant.

Re: Women make up 54% of new students entering Iranian universities

#86

Post by TulliusCicero »

nickik wrote: post #80
TulliusCicero wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Iranian leadership is not crazy group of religious lunatics. Ayatollahs are very conservative group of politicians who use religion for political control. It's not the motivation, it's the use. From a classical liberal western perspective, the government explicitly using religion for control is being a crazy religious lunatic. We're talking about a country where Islam is the official religion, renouncing it is ille…

But Iran also has churches and synagogues, minorities in the parlament, by far the most empowered womans movement, an actual native republican and liberal intellectual tradition, a liberal, both economic and social elite (even within the regimn) and so on. The population is also far less 'bought in' to these rules and police has a hard time enforcing clothing regulations for example. In terms of religous freedom and…

So you're agreeing with me then? Because I was arguing against

> Iranian leadership is not crazy group of religious lunatics.

And here you are saying that it's the leadership with all these crazy rules, enforcing them on a perhaps-unwilling populace.

Re: Women make up 54% of new students entering Iranian universities

#87

Post by whenchamenia »

simonh wrote: post #75
curiousgal wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can only speak for Tunisia but the reason women go into STEM is purely economical. STEM jobs pay the most. The way I see it, a lack of women in STEM is a symptom of a healthy economy, who wouldn't want to not deal with spaghetti code if money was not an issue?

If it was just about pay, surely the incentive would work on boys just as much as girls? I think the idea is that STEM attainment confers social status, and in cultures with low gender equality it's one of the few ways girls can gain social status independently of men. They can then leverage that status to gain economic and other freedoms. Boys on the other hand have other ways available to them to gain economic adva…

Lol @ stem conferring social status. Most stem is just desk work. Its not some romantic mars mission for 99.999% of even the best engineers. The only thing buying status is the paycheck. Money empowers women. Its that simple.

Re: Women make up 54% of new students entering Iranian universities

#88

Post by ViktorV »

simonh wrote: post #75
curiousgal wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can only speak for Tunisia but the reason women go into STEM is purely economical. STEM jobs pay the most. The way I see it, a lack of women in STEM is a symptom of a healthy economy, who wouldn't want to not deal with spaghetti code if money was not an issue?

If it was just about pay, surely the incentive would work on boys just as much as girls? I think the idea is that STEM attainment confers social status, and in cultures with low gender equality it's one of the few ways girls can gain social status independently of men. They can then leverage that status to gain economic and other freedoms. Boys on the other hand have other ways available to them to gain economic adva…

- If it was just about pay, surely the incentive would work on boys just as much as girls?

That's the question basically. Would it :)? One side says it would the other says that genders are statistically different.

- Boys on the other hand have other ways available to them to gain economic advantage

I don't know about them. Sure, the 0.1% of them can be politicians / CEOs, but it's not "available" for people in general ( it requires a very specific personality IMHO ). I don't think 10-20-30% differences could be explained by this small portion. For most men gaining economic advantage _is_ about getting a good job, and that's the only option.

Re: Women make up 54% of new students entering Iranian universities

#89

Post by simonh »

nabla9 wrote: post #73
TulliusCicero wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Iranian leadership is not crazy group of religious lunatics. Ayatollahs are very conservative group of politicians who use religion for political control. It's not the motivation, it's the use. From a classical liberal western perspective, the government explicitly using religion for control is being a crazy religious lunatic. We're talking about a country where Islam is the official religion, renouncing it is ille…

Everything you say applies to Saudi Arabia. There is no justification to not having Iran as an ally instead of Saudi Arabia or Pakistan.

First sentence absolutely, I've no argument there.

For the second point, for that to work it has to apply to the Iranian regime as much as to the west. What justification do they have for not having the west as an ally? It has to cut both ways, for the two sides to be able to meet in the middle.

Re: Women make up 54% of new students entering Iranian universities

#90

Post by simonh »

ViktorV wrote: post #88
simonh wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it was just about pay, surely the incentive would work on boys just as much as girls? I think the idea is that STEM attainment confers social status, and in cultures with low gender equality it's one of the few ways girls can gain social status independently of men. They can then leverage that status to gain economic and other freedoms. Boys on the other hand have other ways available to them to gain economic adva…

- If it was just about pay, surely the incentive would work on boys just as much as girls? That's the question basically. Would it :)? One side says it would the other says that genders are statistically different. - Boys on the other hand have other ways available to them to gain economic advantage I don't know about them. Sure, the 0.1% of them can be politicians / CEOs, but it's not "available" for people in gener…

>- Boys on the other hand have other ways available to >them to gain economic advantage > >I don't know about them. Sure, the 0.1% of them can be >politicians / CEOs, but it's not "available" for people >in general

In many of these countries there are a huge variety of jobs that are not available to women, because their ability to interact with men who are strangers is highly restricted. So most commercial, industrial and many administrative roles are not available, because they would involve often meeting 'random' men. In some of the countries, women can't even serve men in shops.

That cuts it down to basically office jobs or educational institutions where the men around you are a stable restricted group, that it's possible to gain social acceptance for, or jobs involving meeting men in highly controlled situations.

Even then, for many administrative roles in these cultures jobs are obtained through contacts and private arrangements rather than through an open jobs market. Again that's largely not available to women because these networks are almost entirely male and again lack of ability to associate freely with men closes them off.

STEM is different because it's jobs are only available to people with specific, quantifiable qualifications and skill the possession of which is an objective fact, verifiable through credentials. That's where the status comes from. Social networks and personal opinions of suitability aren't good enough for employers to fill all the roles they have open, so they have to look to a wider jobs market. They can't afford to close those roles to half or more of the available work force, so they have to make arrangements to suit women's working conditions or lose out on skilled candidates.

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