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How a deadly fall revealed CIA secrets

theguardian.com

81–90 of 99 posts

Re: How a deadly fall revealed CIA secrets

#81
post #71
post #22

Interesting how the article turns a story of mass torture and killings akin to nazy mad-science into a story about one individual murder. Makes one wonder why would a state research mind control from drugs, when mind control from history books and newspapers is already so efficient.

They were researching mind control to extract information from individual subjects. (Because torture doesn't work) It has nothing to do with propaganda.

[deleted]

Re: How a deadly fall revealed CIA secrets

#82
post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But it's far easier to think up drugs that have caused untold human misery, and do so much more reliably. Every human who takes these drugs will suffer through the misery. No such thing as "I'm too strong to be affected by this drug." (heroin, crystal meth.) Or "I can quit whenever I want." (opium, flakka.) Or, "My neighborhood, or community, or nation won't fall into ruin because of this drug." (China with opium, bl…

> Every human who takes these drugs will suffer through the misery. Blatantly false. Not everyone you uses XYZ drug ends up a hopeless addict. The vast majority of people use the drug with no long term negative effects addiction, including methamphetamine, heroin, cocaine et al > No such thing as "I'm too strong to be affected by this drug." (heroin, crystal meth.) Sure they will effect you > Or "I can quit whenever…

This is a recklessly false statement. Please do research into current literature before relaying dangerous anecdotes that you believe to be true about you.

Re: How a deadly fall revealed CIA secrets

#83

Two other LSD targets of the CIA's program weren't mentioned in this excerpt. You've probably heard of them: Ted Kaczynski Charles Manson It is possible that neither would have committed their crimes but for their involvement in the CIA's mind experimentation programs. See, O'Neill, Chaos: Charles Manson, the CIA and the Secret History of the Sixties (2019).

Interesting that psychedelics are being pushed by elites via popular media like Joe Rogan, etc.

'pushed by elites'?

Re: How a deadly fall revealed CIA secrets

#84
post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In one hand, of course all those story fragments are alarming and revolting. On the other hand, each time such a thing surfaces the most surprising is always that it seems to have surfaced due to this automatic declassification mechanism that I've never heard of an equivalent anywhere else in the world. In most places, including many modern and wealthy democracies, I believe you would just expose yourself to troubles…

could you point me to how this story was exposed through declassification?

True, in that case the press started it, and then the family sued.

Re: How a deadly fall revealed CIA secrets

#85
post #33
post #22

Interesting how the article turns a story of mass torture and killings akin to nazy mad-science into a story about one individual murder. Makes one wonder why would a state research mind control from drugs, when mind control from history books and newspapers is already so efficient.

Maybe mind control from history books or whatever is not as efficient as you're thinking it is? Just speculating that if I was a military commander, yeah, I'd go for saturating a place with drugs to keep the people there from planting IED's way before I would trust history books to do so. Just strikes me as way more reliable. If history is any indication, using history books to get people to behave decently doesn't s…

I believe the vast majority of people in the west believe that the west, despite some fixable issues, represents the Good, whereas for instance Nazi Germany or Stalinist Russia are the worst Evil Nations ever created, while when one stick to the facts it's much harder to tell them apart (but for the fact that one side won and therefore can tell its own story).

This observation alone leads me to believe that there is some very effective propaganda that's been going on for a good while.

Impossible to find out for sure of course, as the only propaganda that is visible is the propaganda that fails.

Re: How a deadly fall revealed CIA secrets

#86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder if there is even anything one could do in that kind of situation to have a normal life. Edit: I also think this kind of thing exists in society today, but probably bought and sold on exclusive markets to modern lords and ladies.

Wait, what?

If someone shared outright that they'd had similar experiences, few people would believe them.

Re: How a deadly fall revealed CIA secrets

#87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wait, what?

If someone shared outright that they'd had similar experiences, few people would believe them.

> I also think this kind of thing exists in society today, but probably bought and sold on exclusive markets to modern lords and ladies.

Can you elaborate? I don't know what you're referring to.

Re: How a deadly fall revealed CIA secrets

#90
post #77

I recall distinctly this being called a conspiracy theory years ago.

What stories were regarded as conspiracies? I had thought that a fair amount of information about MKUltra was uncovered by the end of the 70s. [1] (Assuming you are not referring to a time before then).

[1] http://www.nytimes.com/packages/pdf/national/13inmate_Projec...

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