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How a deadly fall revealed CIA secrets

theguardian.com

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Re: How a deadly fall revealed CIA secrets

#21
post #16

Two other LSD targets of the CIA's program weren't mentioned in this excerpt. You've probably heard of them: Ted Kaczynski Charles Manson It is possible that neither would have committed their crimes but for their involvement in the CIA's mind experimentation programs. See, O'Neill, Chaos: Charles Manson, the CIA and the Secret History of the Sixties (2019).

Source?

Oh my god, GP literally mentions the source at the end of the comment! Come on!

Re: How a deadly fall revealed CIA secrets

#22
Interesting how the article turns a story of mass torture and killings akin to nazy mad-science into a story about one individual murder.

Makes one wonder why would a state research mind control from drugs, when mind control from history books and newspapers is already so efficient.

Re: How a deadly fall revealed CIA secrets

#23
post #16

Two other LSD targets of the CIA's program weren't mentioned in this excerpt. You've probably heard of them: Ted Kaczynski Charles Manson It is possible that neither would have committed their crimes but for their involvement in the CIA's mind experimentation programs. See, O'Neill, Chaos: Charles Manson, the CIA and the Secret History of the Sixties (2019).

Source?

> See, O'Neill, Chaos: Charles Manson, the CIA and the Secret History of the Sixties (2019).

Re: How a deadly fall revealed CIA secrets

#24

Two other LSD targets of the CIA's program weren't mentioned in this excerpt. You've probably heard of them: Ted Kaczynski Charles Manson It is possible that neither would have committed their crimes but for their involvement in the CIA's mind experimentation programs. See, O'Neill, Chaos: Charles Manson, the CIA and the Secret History of the Sixties (2019).

Interesting that psychedelics are being pushed by elites via popular media like Joe Rogan, etc.

Re: How a deadly fall revealed CIA secrets

#25

Yes another great read, for the land of the free and brave.

In one hand, of course all those story fragments are alarming and revolting.

On the other hand, each time such a thing surfaces the most surprising is always that it seems to have surfaced due to this automatic declassification mechanism that I've never heard of an equivalent anywhere else in the world. In most places, including many modern and wealthy democracies, I believe you would just expose yourself to troubles if you asked for some clarifications about any ancient classified material.

I wonder if there is any recommended source to learn more about how this law/practice came to be?

Re: How a deadly fall revealed CIA secrets

#26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's referred to earlier as a settlement. It's a form of pre-trial relief when both sides agree that this settles the matter and brings litigation to an end. It's not a contract per se, and to seek legal relief again, you would have to find new grounds - you have effectively used your legal relief. It's the usual end for lawsuits.

is the discovery of deception not a new ground in itself? "jump or fell". "the suicide of your father upset you, go seek therapy", ... don't qualify as new grounds? does the law explicitly regulate settlement, new grounds, etc or is it emergent behaviour or "standard operating behaviour" of which everyone assumes that is what the law says as opposed to what the law actually says? Edit: perhaps a clearer phrasing in e…

Yes, I'd think that there was a breach of the settlement contract by virtue of the fact that the family was lied to. They might have done something different if the facts were known then as they are known now. It's definitely new information or new grounds.

Re: How a deadly fall revealed CIA secrets

#27

Two other LSD targets of the CIA's program weren't mentioned in this excerpt. You've probably heard of them: Ted Kaczynski Charles Manson It is possible that neither would have committed their crimes but for their involvement in the CIA's mind experimentation programs. See, O'Neill, Chaos: Charles Manson, the CIA and the Secret History of the Sixties (2019).

Another one not many people know about, but will usually recognize the name instantly: Whitey Bulger [1]

1. https://knowledgenuts.com/2013/11/17/mobster-whitey-bulger-u...

Re: How a deadly fall revealed CIA secrets

#28
>He was one of several special operations division scientists who were in France on 16 August 1951, when an entire French village, Pont-Saint-Esprit, was mysteriously seized by mass hysteria and violent delirium that afflicted more than 200 residents and caused several deaths; the cause was later determined to have been poisoning by ergot, the fungus from which LSD was derived.

The article insinuates this group of CIA & army scientists was responsible for the "ergot" poisoning in the french village, has any new evidence to this regard come to light besides the theory / book published in 2009?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1951_Pont-Saint-Esprit_mass_po...

>In his 2009 book, A Terrible Mistake, writer Hank P. Albarelli Jr alleged that the Special Operations Division of the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) tested the use of LSD on the population of Pont-Saint-Esprit as part of its MKNAOMI chemical behavior program in a field test dubbed Project SPAN. According to Albarelli, the ergot contamination explanation had been challenged and "ruled out".[10][13][14] Historian Stephen Kaplan dismissed Albarelli's theories and assertions as "hardly possible", and anthropologist Bernd Rieken [de] wrote that "even in the secular society of the present, substitutes for the devil and other demons may be found, in this case the CIA, which some people believe capable of every conceivable evil".[10][15]

Especially the last quote seems very naive After reading the following paragraph from the posted article!

>“In CIA safe-houses in Germany,” according to one study, “Olson witnessed horrific brutal interrogations on a regular basis. Detainees who were deemed ‘expendable’ – SUSPECTED spies or moles, security leaks, etc – were literally interrogated to death in experimental methods combining drugs, hypnosis and torture, to attempt to master brainwashing techniques and memory erasing.”

capitalization mine: suspects being interrogated to death without any form of due process or trial?

So we have a story about american (and presumably also west german) agents interrogating / experimenting suspects to death in safehouses in germany, and then we have an american-born historian Stephen Kaplan and a german (psychologist?) dismissing that western powers would ever perform feats typically associated with east-german Stasi practices. Guantanamo bay also happened, and was rubberstamped by psychologists / psychiatrists...

some real class acts these CIA & army biological warfare gents!

Re: How a deadly fall revealed CIA secrets

#29

Two other LSD targets of the CIA's program weren't mentioned in this excerpt. You've probably heard of them: Ted Kaczynski Charles Manson It is possible that neither would have committed their crimes but for their involvement in the CIA's mind experimentation programs. See, O'Neill, Chaos: Charles Manson, the CIA and the Secret History of the Sixties (2019).

Another one not many people know about, but will usually recognize the name instantly: Whitey Bulger [1] 1. https://knowledgenuts.com/2013/11/17/mobster-whitey-bulger-u...

Not a criminal, but another very influential person, Ken Kesey, was involved with MKULTRA as well.
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