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Wisconsin Officials Urge People to Stop Vaping After Sudden Rise in Lung Disease

gizmodo.com

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Re: Wisconsin Officials Urge People to Stop Vaping After Sudden Rise in Lung Disease

#81

Post by TylerE »

9wzYQbTYsAIc wrote: post #47
adtac wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>What the hell is wrong with you idiots, safer than cigarettes is not the same as safe I don't see anything wrong with the second part of that statement. Of course, the first part comes across as being an pretentious twat, but it's important to remind people who actually believe vapes are perfectly safe and can do no harm.

Mitigating risk is what it is all about. Methadone is less risky than Heroin, which is why you can get a prescription for the one at a drug treatment facility but not the other.

Actually there are/were places in Europe where addicts could get an actual prescription for heroin. It greatly reduced harm.

Re: Wisconsin Officials Urge People to Stop Vaping After Sudden Rise in Lung Disease

#82

Post by Retric »

jdietrich wrote: post #68
Retric wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Theatrical fog machines are not assumed to be safe daily for 50+ years. Many things are harmful, but not obvious at low doses. People used to use lead as a sweetener. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lead(II)_acetate The current consensus is that vaping is harmful. https://www.lung.org/stop-smoking/smoking-facts/impact-of-e-... However, it’s not really been around long enough for long term effects to be obvious.

> Theatrical fog machines are not assumed to be safe daily for 50+ years. The first link in my comment is a report on precisely that - workplace health and safety for theatrical performers and technicians who spend every day in close proximity to high-volume fog machines. >The current consensus is that vaping is harmful. There are undoubtedly some harms associated with vaping (nicotine is associated with a somewhat e…

“Thirty-seven symptomatic and 68 non-symptomatic performers made up the Phase II study population of 105 performers.” This is at levels that where considered safe at the time.

So, your link demonstrates harm from these smoke machines and recommends limited exposure mentioning a range of respiratory issues. The only thing they say is not linked is Asthmatic symptoms.

Re: Wisconsin Officials Urge People to Stop Vaping After Sudden Rise in Lung Disease

#83

Post by ImprovedSilence »

rzzzt wrote: post #76
kingkawn wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or you take the metaposition and the next person lists (4) categories of comments

Metasmugness is the best position one could take in any topic. Rising above the ones who rise above others, holier-than-holier-than-thou, etc.

Oh but it's smugness all the way down, thou holier of holies. ;)

Re: Wisconsin Officials Urge People to Stop Vaping After Sudden Rise in Lung Disease

#84

Post by JasonFruit »

systematical wrote: post #50

Is their research on people who have ONLY vaped? Most people who vape are former/current smokers. For me, I vape when not drinking and smoke cigarettes when drinking. This means I smoke about 2-3 packs a month, the rest is vape. It's harm reduction for me and allows me to still perform at a reasonable cardio level in beer leagues. Now my evidence is shotty, but my lungs "feel" better and I have a noticeable improveme…

What's a beer league?

Re: Wisconsin Officials Urge People to Stop Vaping After Sudden Rise in Lung Disease

#85

Post by grzm »

JasonFruit wrote: post #84
systematical wrote: post #50

Is their research on people who have ONLY vaped? Most people who vape are former/current smokers. For me, I vape when not drinking and smoke cigarettes when drinking. This means I smoke about 2-3 packs a month, the rest is vape. It's harm reduction for me and allows me to still perform at a reasonable cardio level in beer leagues. Now my evidence is shotty, but my lungs "feel" better and I have a noticeable improveme…

What's a beer league?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beer_league

Re: Wisconsin Officials Urge People to Stop Vaping After Sudden Rise in Lung Disease

#86

Post by hprotagonist »

turndown wrote: post #11
hprotagonist wrote: post #7

Note that the black vape on the right in the photo is very much unlike the other two. It’s a dry herb cannabis vaporizer —- oddly, one of the very few that’s a certified medical device. (it’s a storz and bickel crafty) There’s a vast difference between concentrate/ejuice/distillate vapes and something like a crafty. It would be nice if the two categories of vapes could be separated more cleanly when discussing health…

IIRC the crafty itself is not medically certified but S&B at one time did have a medically certified version.

they sell separately coded crafty/mighty/volcano. They hit slightly lower max temperatures, and you can claim them as medical devices; they’re otherwise identical to their non medical counterparts.

S&B makes awesome gear; i just prefer on-demand.

Re: Wisconsin Officials Urge People to Stop Vaping After Sudden Rise in Lung Disease

#87

Post by hprotagonist »

mattmanser wrote: post #78
Quanttek wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed but I wouldn't try to infer from a stock photo to the substance of the story. The vast majority of vapes used, especially those by young adults and teens, are not black vapes.

It clearly says in the story they had all vaped 'THC', AKA a catch all term these days for dodgy shit. More than likely, given how this hasn't happened in the rest of the WORLD, they vaped something extremely dodgy that they knew was dodgy. if you need me to spell this out for you, this has NOTHING to do with vaping and everything to do with dodgy drug dealers.

Yeah this smells like “someone bought a street cart”. You can buy unfilled 510 carts that claim to be Brass Knuckles or any other major brand, on alibaba, for pennies. Fill it up with whatever you want.

pro tip, don’t buy carts unless it’s from a dispensary. And even then, flowers nicer :)

Re: Wisconsin Officials Urge People to Stop Vaping After Sudden Rise in Lung Disease

#89

Post by dmix »

wpietri wrote: post #22
exogeny wrote: post #15

I sort of hate these articles, because the comments always boil down to three main categories: 1. I vape and this hasn’t happened to me, therefore I’m an expert on public health policy 2. I vape and because it’s better than cigarettes, it’s safe on those terms alone 3. What the hell is wrong with you idiots, safer than cigarettes is not the same as safe You’re either irrationally defensive (1, 2) because you feel att…

I agree on the smug dick part, but is 3 really trivializing addiction? Or is it perhaps a useful counter to the egregious motivated reasoning that goes along with addiction? I certainly think we should be sympathetic with addicts and help them where we can. But I don't think that requires accepting the obvious bullshit that addicts come up with in justifying their behavior. And it's not like vaping is the only way to…

Another huge problem is people rarely accept the realities on the ground in these abstract debates. That people will continue to smoke cigarettes otherwise or find black market means to vape even when its heavily regulated or banned. As a consequence it simply pushes people into completely unsafe vendors and shady people, pushing good kids into the justice system, encouraging related criminal activity which black markets help finance, etc creating a net-worse situation.

High school kids have been able to find weed for decades despite various stringent laws. Many drug dealers are high school kids themselves. I wouldn't be surprised to find kids selling vape oil and cheap chinese vape pens.

This should ultimately be about balancing real alternatives, doing our best to minimize harm, and educating the people who will do it anyway. Although most education attempts have laughably failed like those 90s TV spots by out of touch ad companies paid for by the gov.

People like to argue in some fantasy idealistic world where people will stop engaging in non-violent activity which harms themselves because policy makers say so.

Re: Wisconsin Officials Urge People to Stop Vaping After Sudden Rise in Lung Disease

#90

Post by xkcd-sucks »

9wzYQbTYsAIc wrote: post #47
adtac wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>What the hell is wrong with you idiots, safer than cigarettes is not the same as safe I don't see anything wrong with the second part of that statement. Of course, the first part comes across as being an pretentious twat, but it's important to remind people who actually believe vapes are perfectly safe and can do no harm.

Mitigating risk is what it is all about. Methadone is less risky than Heroin, which is why you can get a prescription for the one at a drug treatment facility but not the other.

Methadone isn't actually safer than known purity heroin, and in fact many opiate addicts say that methadone causes much stronger dependence than heroin/the morphones/the contins. The only "socially good" things about it are the consistent availability and long duration of action, which prevent desperation and petty crime
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