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Stop Blaming America’s Poor for Their Poverty

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Re: Stop Blaming America’s Poor for Their Poverty

#81

Post by michaelmrose »

fatbird wrote: post #46
sokoloff wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That license may also require formal schooling in the amounts of many hundreds of hours of instruction as well...

But what it usually requires is an eight hour course in which you're told repeatedly that you need to sterilize combs in a solution that kills lice so you don't spread lice. Let's not pretend that licencing requirements are always some sinister cartel action to limit the number of nail-painters in a given municipality. Usually they're just a response to some obviously avoidable consequence of a large number of unlice…

Have you done a survey of different state laws to determine what is usual or did you just give the state apparatus the benefit of the doubt and assume it was sane?

I give you TN

>But after doing that for a few months, Tammy heard from officials at the state Cosmetology Board, informing her that she could not continue washing hair because she lacks a governmental license to do so. Under Board of Cosmetology regulations, an individual “must complete not less than 300 hours of instruction on the theory and practice of shampooing” at an approved school.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/georgeleef/2016/05/13/you-need-...

Here in Washington state hair design requires 1,400 hours plus 1750 hours apprenticeship. This is the equivalent of working full time for a year and a half.

Looking at a list of every US state

https://nacams.org/cosmetology-states/

How many of them require an 8 hour course?

Re: Stop Blaming America’s Poor for Their Poverty

#82

Post by Sharlin »

majidazimi wrote: post #76
hestipod wrote: post #33

I was disabled by bad surgery and lost my career. No system that ostensibly should have helped, did. Denied. Denied. Denied. YEARS of adversarial, not default helpful, meetings and challenges and interviews. I saw people worse than me refused help. I saw real time as people who knew me for years or life, who respected me and my career choice helping others, decided I was a lazy mooch who wasn't trying hard enough, wa…

Where does this "Europe is awesome place to live" come from? I live in Germany, I got ear wax, the doctor waiting line was more than a week, so I developed tinnitus problem in a couple of days because of the wax (I don't use any headphone, I don't work in any noisy place so they don't have any effect). Insurance didn't cover medicine cost, so I paid it in cash while I was a student. Then the doctor said, it's too lat…

I'm sorry for your experience, but individual anecdotes are still not data.

Re: Stop Blaming America’s Poor for Their Poverty

#83

Post by majidazimi »

Sharlin wrote: post #82
majidazimi wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where does this "Europe is awesome place to live" come from? I live in Germany, I got ear wax, the doctor waiting line was more than a week, so I developed tinnitus problem in a couple of days because of the wax (I don't use any headphone, I don't work in any noisy place so they don't have any effect). Insurance didn't cover medicine cost, so I paid it in cash while I was a student. Then the doctor said, it's too lat…

I'm sorry for your experience, but individual anecdotes are still not data.

Absolutely. What I meant is, shit happens all the time and you have to be prepared for that. Medication cost didn't cause me an issue, because I save my money quite aggressively.

Being poor (by global standards) in a developed country heavily depends on person's lifestyle and decisions.

Re: Stop Blaming America’s Poor for Their Poverty

#84

Post by fatbird »

fatbird wrote: post #49
cglace wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In some places you need a license to wash hair.

Because without minimal standards for sterilizing tools, hair dressers can spread lice. Basic licencing requirements give the municipality a chance to ensure that everyone washing hair has been told about basic hygienic standards for washing hair.

Leave it to the HN community to view a lice outbreak as an acceptable price to pay for the freedom of the market.

Re: Stop Blaming America’s Poor for Their Poverty

#85

Post by throwawaycert »

rjf72 wrote: post #79
tehjoker wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For what it's worth, the ambition on the left over here (in the US) is to eliminate means testing for programs as much as possible. Healthcare problems? Free healthcare for everyone, no forms required. No home? Everyone gets a free / low cost house. We aim to do much more than that (give control of the economy to the people), but a robust welfare state is a good start.

Imagine there was a button you could push that would give every single person everything you're mentioning - a free house, free healthcare, and all the things you're not mentioning - free education, free sustenance, free childcare, free longterm paid pa/maternal leave, guaranteed high paying jobs, etc. Who wouldn't push this button? I think every single individual, right/left/libertarian/liberal/conservative or whate…

> Who wouldn't push this button?

My father's entire family, who have literally said that being homeless should be a capital crime because it proves how useless you are.

Yes, bad people do exist. Why is this still a surprise to conservatives?

Re: Stop Blaming America’s Poor for Their Poverty

#86

Post by fatbird »

michaelmrose wrote: post #81
fatbird wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But what it usually requires is an eight hour course in which you're told repeatedly that you need to sterilize combs in a solution that kills lice so you don't spread lice. Let's not pretend that licencing requirements are always some sinister cartel action to limit the number of nail-painters in a given municipality. Usually they're just a response to some obviously avoidable consequence of a large number of unlice…

Have you done a survey of different state laws to determine what is usual or did you just give the state apparatus the benefit of the doubt and assume it was sane? I give you TN >But after doing that for a few months, Tammy heard from officials at the state Cosmetology Board, informing her that she could not continue washing hair because she lacks a governmental license to do so. Under Board of Cosmetology regulation…

Note that cosmetology isn't just hair-washing: it covers a wide range of applying a variety of substances to people's hair and skin, often near orifices that more easily absorb toxic subatances like eyes or mouths.

Note that the person who wrote the first article you linked to lists his occupation as "I write on the damage big government does, especially to education."

Note that you elide simple hair washing with 'hair design' and its much more onerous requirement of cosmetology school or apprencticeship (not both).

Did you just assume that all regulation is bullshit and let a quick google search provide your argument?

Re: Stop Blaming America’s Poor for Their Poverty

#87

Post by raverbashing »

ThJ wrote: post #59
hestipod wrote: post #33

I was disabled by bad surgery and lost my career. No system that ostensibly should have helped, did. Denied. Denied. Denied. YEARS of adversarial, not default helpful, meetings and challenges and interviews. I saw people worse than me refused help. I saw real time as people who knew me for years or life, who respected me and my career choice helping others, decided I was a lazy mooch who wasn't trying hard enough, wa…

I'm from Norway. The backside of the medal when it comes to welfare services of that kind is the rather humiliating process you have to go through to actually get them. I've heard many stories about this. Yes, you'll get help if you do as they say, but it can feel very invasive at times. Some clueless bureaucrat will need to know about your finances and all your medical issues, and if it's not a clear-cut case, these…

"Backside"

All of this sounds like just regular checks to prevent abuse of the system

"Humiliating"? Maybe, but that's their job. No I don't think it could be much different.

Of course it's not an utopia, but I've heard much worse from countries much less well off than the US.

I don't think any country does that much better than Norway tbh

Re: Stop Blaming America’s Poor for Their Poverty

#88

Post by michaelmrose »

hcurtiss wrote: post #41

Are we sure that half the median is a good definition of “poor”? At least hypothetically, in a very wealthy country, that may still be an adequate amount to get by.

The median individual monthly income in WA state is slightly above 4K monthly. Half of this is 2K monthly or more accurately given how most people actually get paid 923 every 2 weeks. After taxes this is more like 784. After paying for insurance as you are too rich to get free health care you are looking at more like 684.

This qualifies you to live virtually nowhere because most places want you to make 3x the rent and start at 700-800 per month. In King County where the lions share of the jobs are you probably will have to move to a street corner.

Elsewhere you can perhaps afford to beg someone to rent a bed for 2 weeks wages and afford to eat as long as you have no hobbies and shop exclusively at thrift stores for clothes.

It's probably a mostly acceptable definition of poor that only breaks down in a tiny minority of cases where someone adjacent to a very wealthy area makes enough to barely get buy in the wealthy area but enough to survive slightly more comfortably in the poor area wherein jobs are as scarce as the cost of living is low.

Re: Stop Blaming America’s Poor for Their Poverty

#89

Post by michaelmrose »

fatbird wrote: post #86
michaelmrose wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you done a survey of different state laws to determine what is usual or did you just give the state apparatus the benefit of the doubt and assume it was sane? I give you TN >But after doing that for a few months, Tammy heard from officials at the state Cosmetology Board, informing her that she could not continue washing hair because she lacks a governmental license to do so. Under Board of Cosmetology regulation…

Note that cosmetology isn't just hair-washing: it covers a wide range of applying a variety of substances to people's hair and skin, often near orifices that more easily absorb toxic subatances like eyes or mouths. Note that the person who wrote the first article you linked to lists his occupation as "I write on the damage big government does, especially to education." Note that you elide simple hair washing with 'ha…

>Did you just assume that all regulation is bullshit and let a quick google search provide your argument?

It's not that unsafe a bet when its virtually impossible in most of the nation to do ANY work on people's hair without thousands of dollars and 1k+ to burn becoming certified to do so.

Re: Stop Blaming America’s Poor for Their Poverty

#90

Post by majani »

username90 wrote: post #73

I think the question should not be "Why are there so many poor in USA", but "Why does it suck so much to be poor in USA". I believe that the urban layout and exorbitant healthcare costs are the main issues. If poor neighborhoods were walkable and had cheap supermarkets with fresh produce then you wouldn't need a car, and the density would mean that you have plenty of potential friends within walking distance so you w…

It sucks to be poor because it sucks to be at the bottom of social hierarchies. This is an evolutionary feature of society, not a bug.
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