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Don't Glorify Dropping Out

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Re: Don't Glorify Dropping Out

#81

Post by shrikant »

TomOfTTB wrote: post #19
watty wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

College isn't broken, it's just not for everyone. I don't regret my 4 years one bit, it was the best period of my life. I had some amazing social and educational experiences that I wouldn't have received had I not attended - who knew religion and geology could be so interesting? Most importantly I received a CS degree which helped me transition into the real world and be successful today. You may feel it was a waste…

The point is there's nothing you get from college that you couldn't get for free somewhere else (Internet for info and Industry gatherings for social aspects). College puts it together in a nice, easy to digest package but they vastly over charge for it. The college model is still based around a philosophy from the 1800s when they were the sole providers of information.

I really liked patio11's response to a similar such Ask HN: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1182552

Even if you think university will teach you absolutely nothing, you've got a one-time offer from society that we're going to subsidize anything you do for the next four years and not have any expectation that you'll work for a living during that time. This offer is essentially only good once. Take it.

Re: Don't Glorify Dropping Out

#82

Post by stan_rogers »

ido wrote: post #73
araneae wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd be wary of hiring a college drop-out simply because college can be a filter for stick-to-it-ness. Only a very few college drop-outs do so because they can do better elsewhere; the majority do it because they've failed. And they don't believe that can get back on their feet. I came close to dropping out, but I'm really glad I didn't- because managing to come back showed me that effort really matters and that I hav…

stick-to-it-ness Tenacity?

Actually, it would be sticktoitiveness -- yes, there was already tenacity in the lexicon, but vernacular trumps Fowler every time.

Re: Don't Glorify Dropping Out

#83

Post by gwern »

krschultz wrote: post #52
TomOfTTB wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point is there's nothing you get from college that you couldn't get for free somewhere else (Internet for info and Industry gatherings for social aspects). College puts it together in a nice, easy to digest package but they vastly over charge for it. The college model is still based around a philosophy from the 1800s when they were the sole providers of information.

The perception that "IT'S ALL AVAILABLE ON THE INTERNET" is a strictly CS thing. Outside of programming, you will find drastically less information online for free. Sure you can buy the same textbooks and push yourself through them, but I'm 100% sure it would have taken me longer than 4 years to learn as much on my own as I did in college that was directly relevant to my day to day job. I'm not even sure if I could h…

> Outside of programming, you will find drastically less information online for free.

Areas differ, as always. There's an amazing amount of philosophy out there for free, for example. (I was recently impressed to see how much of Sextus Empiricus was available, and works on the Pyrrhonian skeptics in general.)

Re: Don't Glorify Dropping Out

#84

Post by mkramlich »

enjo wrote: post #27
dasil003 wrote: post #23

> But there's something to be said for a degree as employability insurance. There's something to be said for going out and learning how to get things done and build a business as well. A college degree is hardly insurance for anything. It's clear this guy doesn't have any actual experience with startups. He rattles off the usual talking points: > startups can be as profitable as a few are, only because the great majo…

Counterpoint: First off, I don't have a college degree. I have something like 102 hours, so I'm a year'ish short. That said, I'm always a bit wary of hiring folks who don't have (at least) a liberal arts education of some kind. I don't really care about the computer science, engineering, physics part of the degree. I care about the part of college that prepares you to learn. I care about the breadth of experience tha…

I learned how to learn long before college. Therefore college is not necessary to do that. Furthermore I'd say if you haven't learned how to learn until/outside college then you probably are mentally impaired. College is useful, but to say you can't learn, or learn how to learn, even in a "deep" way, or that you cannot consume or appreciate literature, philosophy or art unless and until you attend college is provably false. One thing's for certain, though: you can learn much faster and more cheaply on your own than by involving college/university, in general.

Re: Don't Glorify Dropping Out

#85

Post by pjscott »

dasil003 wrote: post #23

> But there's something to be said for a degree as employability insurance. There's something to be said for going out and learning how to get things done and build a business as well. A college degree is hardly insurance for anything. It's clear this guy doesn't have any actual experience with startups. He rattles off the usual talking points: > startups can be as profitable as a few are, only because the great majo…

> A college degree is hardly insurance for anything.

Usually, but it depends on the degree. A Women's Studies degree, for example, doesn't make you that much more employable. On the far other end of the spectrum, someone with a Nuclear Engineering degree will be all but guaranteed steady, well-paying work for a long time to come.

Re: Don't Glorify Dropping Out

#86

Post by mkramlich »

araneae wrote: post #31
enjo wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Counterpoint: First off, I don't have a college degree. I have something like 102 hours, so I'm a year'ish short. That said, I'm always a bit wary of hiring folks who don't have (at least) a liberal arts education of some kind. I don't really care about the computer science, engineering, physics part of the degree. I care about the part of college that prepares you to learn. I care about the breadth of experience tha…

I'd be wary of hiring a college drop-out simply because college can be a filter for stick-to-it-ness. Only a very few college drop-outs do so because they can do better elsewhere; the majority do it because they've failed. And they don't believe that can get back on their feet. I came close to dropping out, but I'm really glad I didn't- because managing to come back showed me that effort really matters and that I hav…

It's also a filter for kids that came from more financially pampered backgrounds, family-wise.

Re: Don't Glorify Dropping Out

#87

Post by gawker »

jey wrote: post #57
krschultz wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The perception that "IT'S ALL AVAILABLE ON THE INTERNET" is a strictly CS thing. Outside of programming, you will find drastically less information online for free. Sure you can buy the same textbooks and push yourself through them, but I'm 100% sure it would have taken me longer than 4 years to learn as much on my own as I did in college that was directly relevant to my day to day job. I'm not even sure if I could h…

> Would you like a self taught doctor over one with a degree? The degree is for his/her own benefit. What I care about is whether the doctor is smart and well-informed. No, I don't think that earning the right to use the suffix "M.D." means that the doctor is well-informed and knowledgeable.

Nope but it is some form of metric that you can use to judge the doctor's capability.

With a self-taught doctor, you just have the questions that you ask to help you judge. With a doctor who's been through school, you have both your questions and the fact that he/she has been through what has been set out by the school issuing the degree.

Re: Don't Glorify Dropping Out

#88

Post by astrofinch »

krschultz wrote: post #52
TomOfTTB wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point is there's nothing you get from college that you couldn't get for free somewhere else (Internet for info and Industry gatherings for social aspects). College puts it together in a nice, easy to digest package but they vastly over charge for it. The college model is still based around a philosophy from the 1800s when they were the sole providers of information.

The perception that "IT'S ALL AVAILABLE ON THE INTERNET" is a strictly CS thing. Outside of programming, you will find drastically less information online for free. Sure you can buy the same textbooks and push yourself through them, but I'm 100% sure it would have taken me longer than 4 years to learn as much on my own as I did in college that was directly relevant to my day to day job. I'm not even sure if I could h…

>Outside of programming, you will find drastically less information online for free.

Here are 5 freely available introductory calculus books.

http://books.slashdot.org/books/04/03/04/028253.shtml

Re: Don't Glorify Dropping Out

#90

Post by pjscott »

enjo wrote: post #51
nkassis wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"PhD school (accounting)" that's an interesting choice. What kind of research or work does she do?

She studies behavioral accounting issues. Her dissertation was on the effect of internet stock message boards and their influence on investor decision making. In her case she overlaps very heavily with behavioral economics (think freakonomics, predictably irrational, etc...). It can be pretty amusing watching these academics fight over what is in the realm of behavioral accounting and what is within economics. No one…

> It can be pretty amusing watching these academics fight over what is in the realm of behavioral accounting and what is within economics. No one really knows;)

If they have to argue about this, then they've probably drawn the dividing lines between their categories wrong, and they're trying to shoehorn new ideas into an ill-fitting taxonomy rather than making the taxonomy accurate.

(Related: where the hell does computer science fit? Is it a science, or a branch of applied math, or a craft, or an engineering discipline? Or perhaps an exotic species of potato? Sometimes I think we need the ghost of Alfred Korzybski to rise from the grave and harangue people.)

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