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Americans can opt out of airport facial recognition

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Re: Americans can opt out of airport facial recognition

#81

Post by khuey »

filoleg wrote: post #72
khuey wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are they actually using this on domestic flights? I know the article mentions flying domestically but I haven't seen any evidence that this is being used for non-international flights. The whole point of this is to implement the Congressional mandate for exit tracking without the more traditional exit controls of getting your passport checked and stamped upon exit (which most countries do).

I thought so too, so your comment prompted me to look it up. Seems like the enforcement of this requirement will begin on October 1st 2020.[1] [1] https://www.dhs.gov/news/2019/04/04/tsa-reminds-travelers-re...

Real ID is separate and has been in the works for 15 years. Nothing in that press release says that facial recognition is going to be used for domestic air travel.

Re: Americans can opt out of airport facial recognition

#82

Post by hprotagonist »

cobythedog wrote: post #68
sneak wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I did this every time I re-entered the US for several years. After a few times, they took to arresting me for 4-10 hours on EVERY ENTRY, sending busses without me, making me miss connecting flights, et c. One time I was locked in a room without food, water, or medication for 12 hours. (FWIW, I'm white, a US citizen, employed, and wealthy-by-most-standards-but-not-by-HNs.) They'd sometimes simply intimidate me, someti…

What does it mean to be "digitally penetrated"? I'm not familiar with that.

read digit as “finger” not “numerical representation form”; it means that a customs agent stuck their fingers in one or more bodily orifices.

Re: Americans can opt out of airport facial recognition

#83

Post by [deleted] »

SoylentYellow wrote: post #48
chrisseaton wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn’t a passport just a basic photo ID? Seems reasonable to ask for on to check people are who they say they are. Everyone already has a passport.

Do not assume all people have a passport. In the US, there is not much reason to get a passport unless you plan to travel internationally. Due to the high cost of international travel, I would imagine only a small percentage of lower income individuals have a passport. Even getting a passport is expensive. When you think about it, requiring a passport to opt out of facial recognition screening essentially discriminat…

[deleted]

Re: Americans can opt out of airport facial recognition

#84

Post by gumby »

tedivm wrote: post #60
holy_city wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I'm surprised they didn't require full fingerprints for REAL ID. They do in California!

California has required a thumb print for a drivers license since 1982.

Technically "right thumb, or left thumb if you have no right thumb, or another finger if you have no thumbs".

Which I remember only because I was surprised/amused to see this in the driver's handbook (the pamphlet they give you if you are applying for a license). That handbook contains a tiny slice of the vehicle code, presumably the most important subset, which is why this made me laugh.

I just looked at the current one online and it no longer includes this info.

Re: Americans can opt out of airport facial recognition

#85

Post by JohnFen »

gumby wrote: post #24
chrisseaton wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn’t a passport just a basic photo ID? Seems reasonable to ask for on to check people are who they say they are. Everyone already has a passport.

I don't know about everyone but I just looked and was shocked to learn 42% of Americans have passports, 10X the level 25 years ago. Personally I rarely carry any ID at all, and when I do it's a non-"real ID" driver's license, which I have though I don't own a car. Almost anywhere where ID is "required" (including air travel) it turns out that if you don't have any you can still do what you want (note I'm old enough t…

> Personally I rarely carry any ID at all

I do usually carry ID, but (except for flying) I can't remember the last time I actually had to show it to anybody.

Re: Americans can opt out of airport facial recognition

#86

Post by crowtoe76 »

afpx wrote: post #28
turk73 wrote: post #23

The pieces of the puzzle that all go together: REAL ID, federalizes drivers licenses for creating a database of photos for facial recognition and metadata. Enhanced Passport--the requirements for getting the photo include not wearing glasses and not smiling, ostensibly so that their algorithm works better. Facial scanning at airports, so they can build up as big a database as possible. I'm surprised they didn't requi…

That seems like hyperbole to me. Remember, we live in a republican democracy. Yes, it works slowly (by design). But, it works. At least we don’t have a totalitarian state to deal with. I used to be skeptical of this stuff, too. Then, we had 18 years of no major terrorist attacks.

If one single state actor was involved in pulling off that "major" event, then your point about all the consequences being "worth it" is irrelevant.

Re: Americans can opt out of airport facial recognition

#87

Post by JohnFen »

gumby wrote: post #64
mehrdadn wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I generally have ID with me only if I know in advance I'm going somewhere where I cannot do without it, a couple of times a month. I fly more than that! Wow, what's the procedure like for when you don't have your ID if you don't mind me asking? What do you tell them when they ask why, how do they verify you, how early do you come/long does it take, etc.?

I never make a big deal of it, just say casually, "sorry, I don't have any ID with me". If they really want something I hand over a credit card or business card. In general nobody really has a need for ID and would rather not lose your business. You show up with an Amex platinum card and a haircut no hotel is going to deny you a room just because you don't have ID. When you fly without ID (note: this is different fro…

> But for SSN I do fib: when asked for SSN (say at a drugstore or whatever) I say "sorry, I'm a foreigner and don't have one".

I'm rarely asked unless there is a regulatory reason they're asking (and then I tell the truth). But when someone wants to know mine for no legitimate reason, I give them Richard Nixon's SSN.

Re: Americans can opt out of airport facial recognition

#88

Post by gumby »

mehrdadn wrote: post #69
gumby wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I never make a big deal of it, just say casually, "sorry, I don't have any ID with me". If they really want something I hand over a credit card or business card. In general nobody really has a need for ID and would rather not lose your business. You show up with an Amex platinum card and a haircut no hotel is going to deny you a room just because you don't have ID. When you fly without ID (note: this is different fro…

Wow that was interesting, thanks for sharing! The question I was asking regarding how long it takes etc. was for the airport -- I thought they verify your ID otherwise somehow? By asking you questions or something? Do they really merely pat you down and look at your luggage without verifying who you are?

Pretty much; they ask a few questions but really what would they know to ask?

The whole idea of needing ID to fly is quite recent; you used to by cheap unused tickets on craigslist (and before that from classified ads in newspapers). Round trip tickets were much cheaper than one way so people would buy a round trip and then sell the unused segment. Or a company would book a ticket and then due to a change of plans someone else would take the flight. On some flights you bought the ticket on the plane.

Then again on a few occasions I got on the wrong flight and end up some place unexpected.

The destructive permissions culture that we see online expanded along with parallel development in the physical world.

Re: Americans can opt out of airport facial recognition

#89

Post by throwayEngineer »

dkarl wrote: post #8

It seems like the only effect of the opt-out option is to smooth over controversy. I wonder who went through the charade of pushing for the opt-out and treating it as a victory.

Ikr, "opt out" for the government means, put on theatre to act like people can opt out.

Re: Americans can opt out of airport facial recognition

#90

Post by cblades »

chrisseaton wrote: post #38
fromthestart wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Everyone already has a passport. I'm pretty sure most native born citizens don't get passports unless and until they make plans to travel internationally.

Isn’t that risky - what if you suddenly have to travel with business and there’s a delay getting a passport?

This is a sincere question: what's your background that you have such a skewed perspective of US travel tendencies?
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