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Americans can opt out of airport facial recognition

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31–40 of 222 posts

Re: Americans can opt out of airport facial recognition

#31
post #23

The pieces of the puzzle that all go together: REAL ID, federalizes drivers licenses for creating a database of photos for facial recognition and metadata. Enhanced Passport--the requirements for getting the photo include not wearing glasses and not smiling, ostensibly so that their algorithm works better. Facial scanning at airports, so they can build up as big a database as possible. I'm surprised they didn't requi…

> full fingerprints for REAL ID.

Permanent residents (and non residents) already get their prints scanned at every entry. I'm a naturalized citizen now but was always mildly bothered by being singled out (my wife and kids are US citizens by birth) for that level of screening.

Re: Americans can opt out of airport facial recognition

#32

They delete the photo after 12 hours, but probably not the measurements for recognition.

I'm always wary about this; when companies say they delete the bio-metric photos. They may delete the photos (even if they actually shred the photos), but they are still training a bio-metric model to better identify you before the photos are deleted. > Biometric Templates: CBP creates biometric templates of historical photos and new photos for matching and storage. Biometric templates are strings of multiple numbers…

> cannot be reverse-engineered by anyone outside of CBP to reconstruct the photo

Is this really true with GANs these days? Not that this was meant to be a technical statement of course... but I'd imagine you could train a network to create a photo that activates a given template?

Re: Americans can opt out of airport facial recognition

#33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn’t a passport just a basic photo ID? Seems reasonable to ask for on to check people are who they say they are. Everyone already has a passport.

You find it normal to carry around passports for domestic travel? How often do you travel?

I travel with work a lot. Seems normal to carry some ID like a passport when travelling, to me.

Hotels often ask for ID. You don’t know if your plans will change and you’ll need to fly straight to another country, etc.

Re: Americans can opt out of airport facial recognition

#34
post #11

also worth noting: as a US citizen re-entering the country you do not have to present anything more to a customs agent than your passport. You are not required to answer any questions at all. Where youre from, where you were, what you did, nothing, however it may result in an inspection of your bags, so it depends on whether your interpretation of liberty is based on personal convenience. Disclosure: ive done this op…

I did this every time I re-entered the US for several years. After a few times, they took to arresting me for 4-10 hours on EVERY ENTRY, sending busses without me, making me miss connecting flights, et c. One time I was locked in a room without food, water, or medication for 12 hours. (FWIW, I'm white, a US citizen, employed, and wealthy-by-most-standards-but-not-by-HNs.)

They'd sometimes simply intimidate me, sometimes they'd make a big show about searching everything I had (not even looking in every zipper pocket), et c. In all cases they would lie to me and tell me what I was doing was illegal. (Remember: making false statements to federal agents is a crime.)

I eventually stopped after a few years and would voluntarily yield to their probing questions to avoid delays; I continued to get harassed by border guards and sent to secondary (for an additional 1-10 hours of arrest) on every entry for approximately 4 years afterward, even when answering all questions in full voluntarily. These days, they don't ask me questions, and just wave me through. I'm curious what changed a year or two ago to make them stop harassing me for exercising my rights for 24 months some time ago.

Oh, I almost forgot: one time, they digitally penetrated a Canadian woman who was my travel companion, simply because, in secondary (where we ended up because of my previous rights assertions) we both declined to unlock our phones for the border cops. They strip searched us both, and denied her entry. Denying entry is somewhat understandable due to the failure to search her encrypted device (if a bit dumb), however, sexually assaulting her and forcing us both to manipulation of our genitals is a little bit beyond their mission, in my opinion.

Re: Americans can opt out of airport facial recognition

#35
post #28
post #23

The pieces of the puzzle that all go together: REAL ID, federalizes drivers licenses for creating a database of photos for facial recognition and metadata. Enhanced Passport--the requirements for getting the photo include not wearing glasses and not smiling, ostensibly so that their algorithm works better. Facial scanning at airports, so they can build up as big a database as possible. I'm surprised they didn't requi…

That seems like hyperbole to me. Remember, we live in a republican democracy. Yes, it works slowly (by design). But, it works. At least we don’t have a totalitarian state to deal with. I used to be skeptical of this stuff, too. Then, we had 18 years of no major terrorist attacks.

I think OP's point is that many of the tools necessary for a totalitarian state are in place. The Stasi and NKVD would have loved tools like this. America once aspired to something other than "papers please".

Re: Americans can opt out of airport facial recognition

#36

Am I the only one spooked by the fact that to opt out, you now need to have your passport with you? (and for _domestic travel_ no less) Given that the facial databases contain your data regardless, and the amount of in-airport surveillance (in that you're not gonna avoid being observed and logged), It's more of a, "we're gonna make you present your papers regardless, pick your poison"

Isn’t a passport just a basic photo ID? Seems reasonable to ask for on to check people are who they say they are. Everyone already has a passport.

Less than half of Americans have a passport. [1] And it has nothing to do with photo ID, it's the fact that they forced the states to adopt REAL ID under the pretenses that they would make photo IDs more reliable and difficult to fake (back in 2005), and now they're using the photos they collected to create a facial recognition system.

This needs to be voted on by a full session of Congress and debated in the public sphere, not quietly rolled out at a few airports to normalize it.

[1] https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/passports/after/p...

Re: Americans can opt out of airport facial recognition

#37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn’t a passport just a basic photo ID? Seems reasonable to ask for on to check people are who they say they are. Everyone already has a passport.

If you have never travelled outside the US you might not have a passport.

True story. Until a few years ago the only place outside the US that I had gone was Canada, so a passport was not needed. Well, I had a trip coming up to a country other than Canada so I finally had to get a passport. Upon beginning the return trip, I was stopped at security. Before I boarded the plane, I was magic wanded ... again. Not wanting to be one of "those" Americans I held my tongue. Upon landing back in the US, I got stopped again at security. Back on home ground I could be as belligerent as I cared to be. But they just ignored me and went about their search.

Only thing I could think was it was a new passport. Pissed me off though. That's just stupid.

Re: Americans can opt out of airport facial recognition

#38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn’t a passport just a basic photo ID? Seems reasonable to ask for on to check people are who they say they are. Everyone already has a passport.

>Everyone already has a passport. I'm pretty sure most native born citizens don't get passports unless and until they make plans to travel internationally.

Isn’t that risky - what if you suddenly have to travel with business and there’s a delay getting a passport?

Re: Americans can opt out of airport facial recognition

#39
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm always wary about this; when companies say they delete the bio-metric photos. They may delete the photos (even if they actually shred the photos), but they are still training a bio-metric model to better identify you before the photos are deleted. > Biometric Templates: CBP creates biometric templates of historical photos and new photos for matching and storage. Biometric templates are strings of multiple numbers…

> cannot be reverse-engineered by anyone outside of CBP to reconstruct the photo Is this really true with GANs these days? Not that this was meant to be a technical statement of course... but I'd imagine you could train a network to create a photo that activates a given template?

I would assume it is using some sort of public-private key encryption to generate the fingerprints. I say this because they say "anyone outside of CBP." So with the proper key, and fingerprint, you can probably reconstruct a photo, or some sort of deepmind type image.

Re: Americans can opt out of airport facial recognition

#40
post #23

The pieces of the puzzle that all go together: REAL ID, federalizes drivers licenses for creating a database of photos for facial recognition and metadata. Enhanced Passport--the requirements for getting the photo include not wearing glasses and not smiling, ostensibly so that their algorithm works better. Facial scanning at airports, so they can build up as big a database as possible. I'm surprised they didn't requi…

>I'm surprised they didn't require full fingerprints for REAL ID.

They do in California!

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